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Can't use Pledge of Allegiance to comply with law (Pledge Banned in Madison, WI Schools)
Wisconsin State Journal ^ | 10/8/01 | Doug Erickson Education reporter

Posted on 10/09/2001 7:02:25 AM PDT by Jean S

Can't use Pledge of Allegiance to comply with law, schools told

The Madison School Board barred schools on Monday from using the Pledge of Allegiance as a way to comply with a new state law that requires a daily patriotism dose.

Instead, schools can use only the national anthem - and then only instrumental versions of it. No words.

The 3-2 board vote came after several parents and teachers complained that the pledge, which contains the line "one nation, under God," is a religious oath that doesn't belong in public schools. Others criticized the pledge for promoting nationalism and militarism.

Board President Calvin Williams, who voted with the majority, said the board's action is the "least intrusive and least offensive" way to comply with the law.

"We've chosen a reasonable compromise that preserves freedom of expression on both ends of the spectrum and doesn't trample on anyone's rights," he said.

The law, which took effect Sept. 1, requires schools to offer the pledge or anthem daily in grades 1 to 12. Madison implemented the law last week, with Superintendent Art Rainwater leaving it up to each school to decide whether the pledge or anthem would be offered and in what format.

The heaviest criticism has been aimed at those elementary schools where the pledge is being read over the public address system. Although the law says students cannot be forced to participate, critics said children have little choice but to listen to it when it's broadcast throughout the school.

"What we're doing here is opening up a very slippery slope," said Sally Franz, an educational assistant at Cherokee Middle School and one of six people who criticized the law Monday. "Indoctrination leads to totalitarianism, and we're approaching that moment."

Board member Bill Keys' motion instructs schools to broadcast an instrumental version of the anthem at a time deemed appropriate by administrators. This option will allow dissenting students to opt out less conspicuously, reducing the chances for harassment, he said.

Williams and Carol Carstensen agreed with Keys. Carstensen said the motion in no way prohibits the teaching of the pledge for educational reasons or the singing of the anthem in music class. And students can say the pledge on their own during the school day, she said.

Ruth Robarts and Shwaw Vang opposed the motion, with both saying it doesn't go far enough to protect the rights of dissenters. "It's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't remove the coerciveness of the classroom situation," Robarts said. She wanted the anthem to be offered before or after classes.

Ray Allen and Juan Jose Lopez were absent. Reached later, Lopez said he opposes the motion.

"I would not have voted to ban the Pledge of Allegiance," he said. "We live in the United States of America, and people should be given the choice."


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To: anniegetyourgun
A great big patriotic BUMP!
21 posted on 10/09/2001 7:19:26 AM PDT by NautiNurse
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To: JeanS; OLDWORD
This is a demonstration of why Madison, Wisconsin, is called the "Peoples Republic of Madison."

Can't sing the National Anthem? Can't say the Pledge of Allegiance? Time for some members of the School Board there to be retired from public life.

Haven't read this whole thread yet. But I'll wager a dollar to a doughnut that some FReepers have already posted the appropriate phone numbers and e-mail addresses.

The (More er Less) Honorable Billybob,
cyberCongressman from Western Carolina

Click here for Billybob's latest, "Bush is DEAD Wrong." The next, "The ONE Commandment," will be posted after al Qua'da and Taliban are gone, or in about 48 hours.

Click here and go to "ALCU Watch" for "The Law of War," a detailed legal discussion of how the US declares war, both historically and in this instance.

22 posted on 10/09/2001 7:20:41 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
If you're looking for a community that's truly nuts, go to Madison.

When I went to UW there we called it "The People's Republic of Madison." The people who run that place are complete, unadulterated godless communists.

While I will defend with my life their right to preach their godlessness, I will also expose them for what they are and let the people who are governed by their decisions decide.

23 posted on 10/09/2001 7:20:42 AM PDT by brewcrew
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To: UB355
Does Madison have a significant Muslim population? (This is not sarcasm, just an honest question).
24 posted on 10/09/2001 7:21:22 AM PDT by browardchad
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: JeanS
I went to Junior High and High School in Madision, WI, back in the 1960's when Madison was still part of the United States of America. Sometime since then, Madison has left the USA and has become part of the dying Communist State of Confusion. Presently that state consists of Cuba, North Korea, Communist China, Venezuela, Berkely, Provincetown, MA and Madison.

Pathetic!

26 posted on 10/09/2001 7:21:33 AM PDT by Redleg Duke
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: JeanS
So much for the idea of local control of the local school system. I wonder how many freepers would welcome a deluge of letters from all over the country complaining about something that they had decided to do locally?

If Madson and Berkely residents complained about our local high school having rifle teams, Bible (as literature) classes, prayer groups, or patriotic themes I'm sure that I'd be of the mind to tell the outsiders to stuff it. Local control; what people want for themselves but don't want others to exercise.

28 posted on 10/09/2001 7:29:28 AM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: UB355
Freeped. Soundly. Thanks.
29 posted on 10/09/2001 7:30:32 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: JeanS
The People's Republic Of Madison rears its UGLY head once again. This is SO embarrassing for the state of Wisconsin.

This is certainly not representative of our entire state. Schools around here (Green Bay) are saying the pledge, flying the flag, etc. Several have "God Bless America" and other patriotic messages on their outdoor signs.

Arggh...this makes me so angry!!!

30 posted on 10/09/2001 7:30:51 AM PDT by MozartLover
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To: JeanS: All
Our schools here in Texas say the Pledge every morning, too.

This is what gets me about the PC crowd -

They say; "We live in a democracy, so majority rules."
Then, it's; "We can't do __________ because we might offend a minority."

NEWSFLASH - You can't have it both ways, you morons!

(And no flaming...I know it's a Constitutional Republic :)

31 posted on 10/09/2001 7:30:53 AM PDT by MamaTexan
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To: JeanS
This is nuts. Even the US Supreme Court, in its school prayer decisions nearly 40 years ago said the Pledge and the Anthem were permissible.
32 posted on 10/09/2001 7:31:24 AM PDT by DonQ
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To: NautiNurse
If you are offended by the National Anthem how can you possibly consider yourself American,throw these people out, they shpould be treated as terrorists because thats the children they are raising. THIS MAKES ME SICK SICK I TELL YOU, LET"S bomb Wisconsin who needs these PRO-TERRORIST, they will be our down fall
33 posted on 10/09/2001 7:34:30 AM PDT by Steakumm
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To: Redleg Duke
Comments, suggestions or questions? Contact us!
comments@madison.k12.wi.us
Madison Metropolitan School District
545 West Dayton Street
Madison, WI 53703
(608) 663-1879

I just called the phone number above, the lady that answered told me to call this number (608) 663-1659
34 posted on 10/09/2001 7:35:18 AM PDT by jgrubbs
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To: UB355
Thanks for the email addy. I just FReeped them.
35 posted on 10/09/2001 7:35:40 AM PDT by winna
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To: JeanS
And BTW, there's THIS.

--Boris

36 posted on 10/09/2001 7:38:41 AM PDT by boris
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To: TLBSHOW
FReep Em Good and right back in their faces

Here's the text of the note I just sent them:

So, you have voted to ban the pledge of allegiance in your schools. This will not stand. You need to change your decision before the rest of America comes down smack, dab in the middle of your business.

Your decision demonstrates that you are nothing but godless traitors, worthy of the charge of treason. You are entitled to your beliefs, but only on your own time - not when it affects other people's children. Either reverse your decision or resign and join the other side. Our president said you are either with us or you are with the terrorists. Methinks you have chosen.

37 posted on 10/09/2001 7:38:47 AM PDT by brewcrew
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To: Congressman Billybob
Can't sing the National Anthem?

For the first time I can really relate to Key, and the real meaning of the words in the national anthem.

Key had been captured by the British in the war of 1812. He was standing on the deck of a British ship watching the British attack Baltimore. There was a real question in his mind that his country,The United States, would not survive the war and end up once again a British colony. Form Key's standpoint, the battle looked to be lost. Then he saw the American flag and realized that his country (and the world's first try at self rule) had survived the battle. Key's fears and hopes are put forth in the song. When you put it in context, it is a wonderful piece of poetry.

The Star Spangled Banner

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep, Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes, What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep, As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses? Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, In full glory reflected now shines on the stream: 'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion A home and a country should leave us no more? Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.<p> Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

38 posted on 10/09/2001 7:38:56 AM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: brewcrew
The Univeristy of Wisconsin embarrasses us alums this past weekend on the football field, now this from the communists running the public schools in Madison.

I'll throw my support elsewhere, like Marquette.

39 posted on 10/09/2001 7:41:04 AM PDT by Kryptonite
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To: jgrubbs
I just called (608) 663-1659 and voiced my outrage. I told the lady that I know that she had nothing to do with the descision, but I do know that she will be taking phone call complaints all day long. I suggested that she find some classified ads for the members of the board of education, it's time for them to find new jobs.

Is there a Free Republic chapter in the Madison area??
40 posted on 10/09/2001 7:41:53 AM PDT by jgrubbs
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