Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Can't use Pledge of Allegiance to comply with law (Pledge Banned in Madison, WI Schools)
Wisconsin State Journal ^ | 10/8/01 | Doug Erickson Education reporter

Posted on 10/09/2001 7:02:25 AM PDT by Jean S

Can't use Pledge of Allegiance to comply with law, schools told

The Madison School Board barred schools on Monday from using the Pledge of Allegiance as a way to comply with a new state law that requires a daily patriotism dose.

Instead, schools can use only the national anthem - and then only instrumental versions of it. No words.

The 3-2 board vote came after several parents and teachers complained that the pledge, which contains the line "one nation, under God," is a religious oath that doesn't belong in public schools. Others criticized the pledge for promoting nationalism and militarism.

Board President Calvin Williams, who voted with the majority, said the board's action is the "least intrusive and least offensive" way to comply with the law.

"We've chosen a reasonable compromise that preserves freedom of expression on both ends of the spectrum and doesn't trample on anyone's rights," he said.

The law, which took effect Sept. 1, requires schools to offer the pledge or anthem daily in grades 1 to 12. Madison implemented the law last week, with Superintendent Art Rainwater leaving it up to each school to decide whether the pledge or anthem would be offered and in what format.

The heaviest criticism has been aimed at those elementary schools where the pledge is being read over the public address system. Although the law says students cannot be forced to participate, critics said children have little choice but to listen to it when it's broadcast throughout the school.

"What we're doing here is opening up a very slippery slope," said Sally Franz, an educational assistant at Cherokee Middle School and one of six people who criticized the law Monday. "Indoctrination leads to totalitarianism, and we're approaching that moment."

Board member Bill Keys' motion instructs schools to broadcast an instrumental version of the anthem at a time deemed appropriate by administrators. This option will allow dissenting students to opt out less conspicuously, reducing the chances for harassment, he said.

Williams and Carol Carstensen agreed with Keys. Carstensen said the motion in no way prohibits the teaching of the pledge for educational reasons or the singing of the anthem in music class. And students can say the pledge on their own during the school day, she said.

Ruth Robarts and Shwaw Vang opposed the motion, with both saying it doesn't go far enough to protect the rights of dissenters. "It's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't remove the coerciveness of the classroom situation," Robarts said. She wanted the anthem to be offered before or after classes.

Ray Allen and Juan Jose Lopez were absent. Reached later, Lopez said he opposes the motion.

"I would not have voted to ban the Pledge of Allegiance," he said. "We live in the United States of America, and people should be given the choice."


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 221-230 next last
To: WIMom
I have an interesting job. Thank you.

I also know how hard it is to put away an thing you have come to hold dear, even when it obscures a greater thing that you need to know and act on.

161 posted on 10/09/2001 3:00:55 PM PDT by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: bvw
I read it.....The problem with your argument is that it comes from a elite form of snobbery that only exists in the so called intelectual community. You are totally ignoring the feelings and thoughts of the 9-5 joe 6-pack people who are a majority in this country. Open your eyes, your ears and your heart. In other words, GET OFF YOUR PEDESTAL.
162 posted on 10/09/2001 3:03:31 PM PDT by Cold Heat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: LLAN-DDEUSANT
No doub't about it! You are the biggest ass. I withdraw from the competition. ROFLMAO!
163 posted on 10/09/2001 3:06:49 PM PDT by Cold Heat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: LurkedLongEnough
These spineless, politically correct "Americans" should leave this country. To quote a great man: From the founding fathers: "Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, 'What should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" --Samuel Adams
164 posted on 10/09/2001 3:08:04 PM PDT by liberat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: liberat
BUMP!
165 posted on 10/09/2001 3:12:23 PM PDT by Cold Heat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

Comment #166 Removed by Moderator

Comment #167 Removed by Moderator

To: JeanS
I just received this e-mail response:

Subject: RE: Outrage!
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:39:53 -0500
From: "Monterrey-Millett, Debbie" Debbie.Monterrey-Millett@gov.state.wi.us>

To: My Name
My Name,

Thanks for emailing. Actually, Madison's school board WILL play the national anthem each day, but without the lyrics. They felt this was a compromise that wouldn't offend those who don't like the words.

Technically, they are not in violation of the law because the law gave an either/or choice (pledge or anthem every day). However, not allowing children to say the pledge at all could be another story. I know our legal counsel is aware of this situation. I will let you know if anything develops.
168 posted on 10/09/2001 3:31:22 PM PDT by WIMom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WIMom
Thanks for sharing this. I think this college town should be knocked back a peg or two.
169 posted on 10/09/2001 3:38:40 PM PDT by Cold Heat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: homeschool mama
You recall incorrectly. I mentioned a fantastic thread where the discussion debated the apparent hypocrisy of FORCING a oath of loyalty in a FREE country. If I could find that old link, you could read how many of us labored between our love of country/desire for partiotism to be disseminated to the future generations, and our love of FReedom/desire to avoid hypocritical stances. (IIRC, it was AppyPappy or Poohbah who was fielding the majority of the discussion. It was around December or January this past winter. Any talented FR researchers out there?)

My school has the pledge, and I'm proud to lead it every day (and say it loudly so that the kids feel compelled to stop muttering). I've also had a Red Skelton-style quiz over every single word and phrase, despite the fact that I'm a math teacher. I felt it was worth two days of class time to discuss.

I'm amazed that I'm writing this note so politely, because the words that I was hissing at your implication through my gritted teeth have been running rather strong. I've backed you and other homeschoolers up on many threads, and am a ferocious Patriot in the face of the Socialists in the school systems, and have been for years, not just since 9-11-01.

Your swipe at me was unfounded, impolite, rude, uncalled for, and highly unappreciated.

170 posted on 10/09/2001 3:44:29 PM PDT by Teacher317
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: Sweet Hour of Prayer
Since when is a dedication to the principles of the founding documents "pseudo-intellectual snobbery"? Why don't you just admit that you didn't even read the man's post and then offer him an apology?
171 posted on 10/09/2001 4:35:09 PM PDT by Twodees
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: 2nd amendment mama
Excuse me but the last I knew, all school districts receive federal funds (my hard earned tax dollars) so I believe we all have a right to give input if they want to be un-American!!!

One does not give rise to the other. When I recieved federal money from the VA to go to college you had no place to tell me how to spend it. Whether we like it or not, those tax dollars don't equate into you getting to tell them how to act. Obviously any citizen can write to anyone, public or private, to express an opinion, but they are under no obligation to do anything about it.

I don't like what they've done. I don't like what San Fransico does. But that's why I don't live there. If you wrote to my community to tell us what to do or not to do, I'd have no problem telling you where to stick it.

Would you have a problem telling me where to get off if I tried to tell you and your community how to run things? I doubt it.

172 posted on 10/09/2001 4:44:12 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: JeanS
They just be freeped!!!!!!!!!
173 posted on 10/09/2001 4:48:36 PM PDT by Coleus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftless
I have to ask what is wrong with teaching American children to love their country?

Nothing. But I'm not sure that reciting the Pledge teaches love for the country or if it teaches mindless conformity. Compulsory recitation. Yep, that's the way to teach love for freedom.

Sometimes I think we have forgotten how importatn it is to think, not just go along to get along.

Don't worry, I've served my country so you cannot ty to nail me for being unpatriotic. In fact, I've flown a flag regularly since about 1987, long before all the Johnny-come-latelies. When did you start flying the flag?

174 posted on 10/09/2001 4:51:54 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: wirestripper
Don't sell us 9-5, joe6pack types short. I'm as blue collar as they come, stripped wire, ran conduit, set panels and pulled cable for 24 years, and I understand exactly what the man's saying. I also agree with him 100%.

Taking a pledge every day is no substitute for understanding and deciding on one's own to uphold the principles of the founding documents. I've had to listen to the dimwits around me, who will cheer for some morally retarded poltitician as he wipes his butt on the Constitution, and every one of those dimwits can recite the pledge in their sleep.

Patriotism has more to do with taking the time and making the effort to educate oneself on the Constitution and the history of the United States. Patriotism also involves exercising the required vigilance against politicians who subvert the Constitution. I'll bet that WJ Clinton has recited the pledge a few thousand times. That doesn't make him a patriot, does it?

175 posted on 10/09/2001 5:03:23 PM PDT by Twodees
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: bvw
The point is that no one was being FORCED to say it, but rather they are forcing the children NOT to say it.

Why do these idiots who complain about these things just teach their children the common courtesy to respectfully stand quietly while the children who WANT to pledge allegiance to their flag or pray do so?

176 posted on 10/09/2001 5:06:00 PM PDT by alnick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: JeanS
Why would any American leave their children in this school system?? If people began to pull their children out of these schools they would begin to get the message. All of that wonderful money out the door with them.
177 posted on 10/09/2001 5:13:43 PM PDT by Lady Heron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Redbob
FREEPERS, LET'S GET 'EM, AND GET 'EM GOOD!!!!LET'S ROLL IN THE NAME OF AMERICA!!!!
178 posted on 10/09/2001 5:14:40 PM PDT by 4mycountry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: bvw
I have heard the anti-pledge insult before, and it is just that. Pledging allegiance is nothing more than declaring patriotism. We do so when taking office or enlisting in our military. Is that, too, a brainwashing? I suppose you hate school prayer, the word "God" anywhere near a government building or document, and perhaps the flag is just another ugly reminder that you live in the United States of America?
179 posted on 10/09/2001 5:59:43 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: brewcrew
On top of that, let's not forget that Marquette changed from the Warriors to the Golden Eagles due to supposed pressure from Native American students about the logo.

I was attending MU at the time this happened and there were quite a few Native Americans in my dorm. Funny that none of them had a problem with a logo; Actually, one of them joked that if you're going be stereotyped, it's better than being pigeonholed as bingo-hall running drunks.

P.S. To this day, I still don't understand why they didn't just change the logo; they irritated a lot of alums (read potential DONORS) by changing the name....but hey, they had to be PC

180 posted on 10/09/2001 6:03:01 PM PDT by NTNgod
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 221-230 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson