The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 159

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 158

[dadwags]

159:35
"Nothing you ever posted has made as much sense as havoc's weakest post"
Boy! that was a low blow . I think I'll just revert to lurking (until I really get motivated).

[dignan3]

Which basically means that, excuse the play on words, if you guys are quoting from them in cut and pastes or using them as authoritative (and some of you have), then you're all wet...

First of all, I rarely quote Catholic Answers as they, in my opinion, only scratch the surface of what Catholic apologetics is capable of. I prefer much meatier material.

That being said, strictly speaking, Catholic Answers isn't authoritative(in the Catholic sense). They in no way constitute, nor are they a part of, the legitimate teaching authority in the Catholic Church. That role is reserved to the Pope and the Bishops.

Catholic Answers can in no way promulgate teaching which binds the conscience of a Catholic. Once again, that authority resides in the Pope and the Bishops.

Insofar that Catholic Answers accurately reflects defined Catholic teaching(i.e. teachings on the Pope, the Mass, the Sacraments, the Trinity, etc...), then it remains a source to be trusted.

But since the Magesterium, which constitutes the Pope and the Bishops in union with him, has not, to my knowledge, authoritatively defined teaching linking 1 Timothy 5 to the practice of having nuns in the Church, then, to a Catholic, the matter is open to legitimate opinion.

It is the opinion of Catholic Answers that 1 Timothy 5 is talking about a type of 1^st century nuns. Personally, just like you, I remain unconvinced that 1 Timothy 5 is refering to "nuns". Does that make me any less Catholic that the folks at Catholic Answers, or vice versa? On this particular issue, no.

I'm sure that you utilize the Internet to cull information that you may use on these threads. Do you have to agree with everything a website may contain in order to use specific material which you do agree with? If not, then you hold us to double standard which may just be another corollary to SoothingDave's Law.

Do you understand? Can you see, in light of the above, that it was wrong for you to equate the specific material regarding 1 Timothy 5 located at Catholic Answers as if, for instance, it were something the Pope said?

Pray for John Paul II

[RobbyS]

While it is possible that Peter visited Rome briefly at some point, the biblical record testifies conclusively that he was not the bishop of the church at Rome. Since St.Peter, like St. Paul, was an apostle, and his chief role, like Paul's seems to be as missionary, and since he obviously did not remain in the city continuously from 42 to 67, as traditon sometimes asserts, you have a point. Besides, the notion of a monarchical bishop better applies to someone like Timothy, as a successor to the apostles. The historical claim of the Church of Rome is that Peter died and was buried there, this lending his prestige to the natural prestige that belonged to the Church in the capital city of the Empire.

[JHavard]

While it is possible that Peter visited Rome briefly at some point, the biblical record testifies conclusively that he was not the bishop of the church at Rome

Big Mack, I think we have successfully proved that Peter was not in Rome, and certainly never Pope, and now I think it's time to move on.

Just where was he, why wouldn't he go to see Paul when he was in prison, and why was no one there except Luke?

I think it's time to consider the fact that he may have left the Church, they may have put him out because he refused to help Paul. He may have bought a video franchise, and opened up a little store next to the big store, so his name "chip off" could still apply.

Now I have no proof of this, but ask your self this one question, .........Can you prove he didn't? huh huh huh :-)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Big Mack, I think we have successfully proved that Peter was not in Rome, and certainly never Pope, and now I think it's time to move on.

Amen and Amen.

[RobbyS]

think we have successfully proved that Peter was not in Rome

You have proved to yourself that what you think is true, is true.

[dignan3]

Big Mack, I think we have successfully proved that Peter was not in Rome, and certainly never Pope, and now I think it's time to move on

And yet there are still professing Catholics on these threads. Weird.

Speaking for myself, as a person who has changed his Christian worldview in the past, I would have no problem with doing so again if the evidence so warrented. To be honest though, I would not go back to the chaos which Protestantism (sorry Havoc, that includes whatever sect you belong to) represents. Eastern Orthodoxy would be where I look to.

At this juncture though, the evidence(most of which amounts to mere speculation) that you guys have presented to date has not convinced me. Sorry.

Pray for John Paul II

[malakhi]

Before the days of Jesus, God demanded blood sacrifice for sin.

This has come up previously, and I would again like to clarify this point. Contrary to Hebrews, blood sacrifice was NEVER the only means of atonement for sin. In fact, blood sacrifice was only for certain types of sin. In the time between the first and second temples, NO blood sacrifices were offered, and yet the Israelites still atoned for sin.

[tiki]

If I understand correctly, that's what they've been saying for 159 threads. I know Catholics understand Sola Scriptura as being, Bible only, no Tradition, while they understand it as ,the Bible is the only way to Salvation. God's last and only word on everything. They seem to think the Holy Spirit helps them to understand what is says in the Bible, but very little else.

[al_c]

Sarah is still a little small, but by next year we'll be able to do all kinds of fun stuff.

Hannah will be 1 on Friday and this last week she started walking on her own. Talk about having fun with a little one! Keeping up with her will be a challenge now!

Enjoy the sledding with her, Dave. At least you have snow in the winter. We get rain if we're lucky ... and maybe some ice one or two days of the winter.

[Pelayo]

sorry Havoc, that includes whatever sect you belong to

I think his Anibaptist, at least he implide in a privaet message.

[Pelayo]

He is*

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

They seem to think the Holy Spirit helps them to understand what is says in the Bible, but very little else.

What else is there?

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

At this juncture though, the evidence(most of which amounts to mere speculation) that you guys have presented to date has not convinced me. Sorry.

Man I thought we were so close to getting to ya, If you would like we could get you in a corner and lay hands on you and pray you thru this. :)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

In fact, blood sacrifice was only for certain types of sin

What were they ?

BigMack

[malakhi]

What were they ?

The type of blood sacrifice pertaining to atonement is called chatat, a sin-offering. A chatat could only be offered for unintentional sins committed through carelessness, not for intentional, malicious sins. For forgiveness of the sin to occur, the offering must be accompanied by repentence and restitution to any person harmed.

[JHavard]

Is there anyone on tonight that can give me a quick run down of what the RCC's teach about the Holy Spirit?

I read what it had on the CE under Holy Spirit, but it didn't explaine who they feel has the HS, and how it all works. Do all regular members have it, do the bishops have more of it, and does the pope have even more?

Is there a site that explains it? Thank you

[JHavard]

Say lurkers, isn't that something about Rush, I was shocked to find out he had lost all hearing in his left ear and almost all of it in the right. The way that man loved music, what a shame.

They must have audio to visual computers set up for him now, and he has to read what the caller is saying, but how can he read their voice inflection.

He tried to do Bill Clinton today, but it wasn't too good. If his hearing doesn’t come back soon, he will probably forget how to make the sounds since he can't hear his own voice.

I wonder why something like this would happen, do any of you have any ideas?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them [Lev. 4:1–2].

angelo don't the sins of ignorance reveal the underlying truth that man is a sinner by nature.

BigMack

[hopefulpilgrim]

You wrote: ....Although we had many miracles in my life, this one stands out as the most obvious, and I will always believe it was because of my innocence in Christ, and my unquestioning faith which we seem to loose as we get older and start picking at our selves because we aren't perfect.

This is such a neat story! Thanks for sharing it. (What did you mean about grinding metal?)