Posted on 10/05/2001 3:08:36 PM PDT by malakhi
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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 157
Again I ask which work or lack of works will cause me to lose it and how do I get it back?
If salvation can be lost by something we do or don`t do, I think it is not like God to leave us in the dark about how to lose it since it is so clear and easy to get.
I see that when Jesus states no one can pluck them out of my hands, that means what it says and includes myself in the "no one". Of course that includes excommunication also. I have joy in this freedom. Love God so much for it that I have no intentions to go out to hurt others in this freedom. But if I do hurt another person neither do I belive that would prove I don`t have it or tht I will lose it.
Does a person lose it who is saved by the blood of the lamb and lives a perfect life[ which no one but Jesus has done] get to his 90th birthday and commits a sin and then lose it, i do not believe that. His whole life is now wasted. If so lets pray we die all immediately upon conversion lest we risk losing what is so cherished at that moment where God set us free untill man loads us up with a bunch of new and even bigger man made burdens.
in 1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved
I guess that depends on what the meaning of eternal is:]
May I recommend here a most powerful book if you have not read it already." GRACE WALKwritten by a preacher.
Big Mack how is that for formatting:]
Here's Greek expert Kenneth Wuest's amplified translation of John 3:36 The one who places his trust in the Son has eternal life. But he who refuses to place his trust in the Son, being of such a nature that he refuses to be persuaded, shall not see life, but the wrath of God is abiding on him. This is consistent with all other non-Catholic translations. I don't know what any RC translations say. It's faith plus nothing (as Paul made clear).
Amen, this cannot be said enough.
Where I was headed with it Is simple. The Catholic Church says that Paul is referring to 1st century nuns here.. Pretty sad isn't it.
Well if they are widows then it is referring to them and they should be taken care of by the church. And if they chose to throw in any other women that chose to give there whole lives to Gods service then are they not doing even better?
I think what is sad is that I have not heard of one protestant church that takes care of its widows, I have heard of some widows that have had all their money extracted from them by greedy preachers that don`t qualify the responsibility of our finances and guilttrip them into giving there small, not enough to pay the bills pensions to them so that they can add another wing onto an already huge ministry. Does your church have a plan for caring for its widows?
Is there a mote in anyones eye?
Hi angelo I guess from reading peoples words I will get to know them. I work at a lot of odd jobs so there will be times I am not posting but will check in every now and then.
Thank you for the welcome.
No. We must each stand in our separate corners and wonder why we aren't impacting the world
Alas we are all setting in front of our computors and arguing over what unprovable doctrines are right or wrong. If it is for the sake of argument it is a waste. If it is in the hopes of drawing each other into a closer relationship to God, through knowledge and encouragement then we can go forth and walk the walk and talk the talk.
Maybe it is not fair that I rose up early before my family and prepared a breakfast for you while no one is here to respond, but I do hope you enjoy your breakfast! I must sign off for a short time as my grandaughter just called and said she wants me to take her to Sunday School. I am putty in her hands.
Absolutely. The Church knows this and is very careful and extremely conservative when it comes to visions or any other supposed supernatural occurances. And even if the Church approves a vision, She only says that it is worthy of belief, not required.
What is interesting about authentic visions of Mary is that she basically has the same message, repent and pray.
Do you think that there is even a remote possibility that any of the visions of Mary or one of the Saints could be authentic?
Hope that helps
Pray for John Paul II
I dunno if there is any sure-fire way of getting yard-work out of a man, particularly after the excuse of football season comes around. I think your best hope there is for cheap, bribe-able grandkids
A case in point is Lourdes. A number of visionaries claiming to see the Virgin emerged, including one woman of pious reputation. But the Church accepted only Bernadette as worthy, in part because her claims were so minimal--she never said that she saw the Virgin Mary--and because of the sanctity of her life thereafter. But there have been hundreds of reports of apparitions of the Virgin in the last two hundred years and the Church has accepted only a few as credible.
Because we don't know what we need until we pray for what we think we need, then we see what God gave us, and we realize then, that he knew what was best, and we thank him that he didn't snswer us the way we thought he should.
Key words, "knows what you need" not what you want.
I hope you were just stimulating conversation with that question D-f. :-)
Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation(Dei Verbum)
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Par. 51-73, The Revelation of God
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Par. 74-100, Transmission of Divine Revelation
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Par. 101-141, Sacred Scripture
Ora pro Ioannes Paulus II
Why, Catholic answers to the nasty unscholarly Proddies of course.. :) Here's the reference:
This applies specifically to ministers of the gospel. When Paul counseled Timothy about how to fulfill his ministry, he cautioned him: "Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him" (2 Tim. 2:3-4). And Paul referred to an order of Christian celibate widows (first-century nuns), saying: "But refuse to enroll younger widows; for when they grow wanton against Christ they desire to marry, and so they incur condemnation for having violated their first pledge" (1 Tim. 5:11-12).
http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/TRACTS/inventn2.htm
Which tells me that whatever the topic, it really doesn't matter to the Catholic church so far as the two verses lifted seem to have something to do with their subject. If you lift the two verses from the context of the subject, they suddenly become something completely different. And if one pages over to them and just reads those two verses, then on it's face they've supported their argument. When you dig and actually read the whole passage, the claim falls flat on its face in shame.
You won't find much disagreement here that much of what *calls itself christianity* turns it's back on it's duties to people. At the same time, others are more interested in works than in obedience. And neither diminishes the fact that Catholicism either A) will lie to support it's goals or B) hasn't the first clue what it is talking about. Yet many would have us believe they are the tower of truth. Stealing from John wayne again, "Not Hardly." Credibility means something. There is no real way that one can misconstrue that passage, which means Shoddy technique or outright lying.
A lot of what we do here is express our ideas, and our convictions through the Holy Spirit that guides us, and still, although we are diverse in many beliefs, we are one in what is required for salvation.
The Catholics feel that the Holy Spirit expresses it's self by uniformity, and one mind on every subject, and we believe the Holy Spirit represents our personality, and truth at the same time, and allows for many different views on many subjects, as long as they are in the guide lines of the scripture.
Tell hubby Hi, and we'll be looking forward to hearing from him one of these days.JH
You see that? That's your credibility flying away.
Pray for John Paul II
Everything hinges on obedience. And John 10 makes clear that Christians are those actively hearing and obeying god. Anyone actively disobeying God is in sin. And the further one gets from God through disobedience, the more at risk they are of losing salvation - by their own choices. If one is being obedient, they've nothing to worry about because Satan has no rights to the obedient. But disobedience to God gives the devil rights to you (disobedience = sin). And considering all promises hinge on obedience, Continued disobedience cannot fullfill the promises of God in anyone's life - including the promise of eternal life. Play with God and you are playing with your soul. Too many wish to deny that God punishes people for disobedience. Acts chapter 5 shows us two people who toyed with God and were put to death for it by God. How does a Christian go to heaven when they died guilty of the unforgiveable sin? They were saved, yet, they were put to death after commiting blasphemy of the spirit - which god says he refuses to forgive (ie, one way ticket to the brimstone gates). But if they are forever saved, then God must forgive this sin before they can enter heaven - see the quandry.
Another much touted verse is the one in which Jesus states he has never lost any which God gave him charge over: They neglect to see where that statement continues on to say "save one" - Judas. Jesus himself states that no one gets a free ride just by saying that. He can only protect those who obey the will of God. And when Judas gave in to the Devil and betrayed the Lord, he sealed his own fate.
If you are obedient to God's word, you've nothing to worry about. If you are not, then you probably don't care to begin with or perhaps think you are getting by with something while God's away... If one is a Christian, Jesus spirit is in them. The spirit will not strive forever with one who is disobedient. Jesus said that if you defile his temple [yourself] He will destroy it.
BTW, Looks like we're hitting Afghanistan.
Actually, no. We're not talking about merely the teaching authority.. We're talking about the obvious lack of ability to get it right - even in official responses to legit questions. And many have been doing a cut and paste of these official responses. It tells me a number of things:
1) The Catholics are willfully misrepresenting the Bible.
2) This puts you guys in a situation of having to trust them and it's obviously misplaced.
3) Those of you doing cut and paste don't know the stuff enough to think for yourselves and argue it on scripture.
4) The Catholic church thinks we're all stupid and cannot read for ourselves - and that ya'll are too or they wouldn't hand you weapons full of blanks and say defend this hill..
Just showing yet another missapplied verse used to buttress claims.
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