Posted on 10/05/2001 3:08:36 PM PDT by malakhi
Sorry for the long Thread 157. I was off of work today, and took my wife and kids to the Milwaukee Zoo. Just got back and checked in--I figured we'd need a new thread, but didn't think you'd have it up to reply #230! I won't have time to read through Thread 157 before sunset, so I will check in tomorrow night to catch up on reading and reply to anyone who posted to me.
Shabbat Shalom!
Vivat Hispania! Domino Gloria! Don John of Austria Has set his people free! Cervantes on his galley sets the sword back in the sheath (Don John of Austria rides homeward with a wreath.) And he sees across a weary land a straggling road in Spain, Up which a lean and foolish knight for ever rides in vain, And he smiles, but not as Sultans smile, and settles back the blade.... (But Don John of Austria rides home from the Crusade.) Maybe a good omen for George Bush!
Our side believes it has won the Peter debate with strong undeniable facts and your side believes it has won (I'm not sure why) :) so here is a subject that is dying to be talked about because it is what is going on on these threads and I don't think it has been talked about in detail yet so I'll go first.
This statement is the heart and soul of ECUMENISM.
Though the ecumenical movement is very broad, there are certain unscriptural traits which are present throughout. The ecumenical movement downplays doctrinal purity and refuses to practice biblical separation.
We cannot put aside doctrin for the sake of peace, there is a Devil out there and he is setting up the false church and this is the vehicle he is using to bring it about.
BigMack
That's your retort, because you can't fight it.
The Devil already has the false church established and of strength. He's been working at it all around the world for a long time. It comes in many names; but, it will ultimately show it's level of deception when Antichrist is revealed.
Becky
Just as the democrats and the republicans have found their common ground is that they are Americans so too maybe we can realize that we are all believers in Christ as the only way to a relationship with God and from there live our days in unity. Our side believes it has won the Peter debate with strong undeniable facts and your side believes it has won (I'm not sure why) :) so here is a subject that is dying to be talked about because it is what is going on on these threads and I don't think it has been talked about in detail yet so I'll go first. This statement is the heart and soul of ECUMENISM. Wow I can`t believe I typed that as you know from all my other posts in 157 that I do not believe that we all as humans are christians. Just as I stated that not all religions lead to a relationship to God but all religions have a way to find God in them and that is truly different.The statement should read Just as the democrats and the republicans have found their common ground is that they are Americans so too maybe we can realize that all believers in Christ who is the only way to a relationship with God have their salvation as a comonality and from this truth live our days in unity. God calls Christians to unity in,ephesians 4
41As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit-- just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved>blockquote> Sorry about the runaway thought but I am glad it gave you a new idea for discussion.
Your right Havoc and here is but one example.
In an issue of Charisma magazine contained an article entitled "We Can Win Our Cities Together," calling for ecumenical evangelism. It was written by Ted Haggard, pastor of the charismatic New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Haggard claims that the variety among churches and denominations is like that found in a Baskin-Robbins ice cream store, and that the differences are intended by God to provide variety in "the body of Christ."
"I love all kinds of ice cream. Sometimes I want vanilla with caramel topping, whipped cream, lots of nuts and a cherry. Other times I want Rocky Road, banana or chocolate chip. That’s why I love Baskin-Robbins ice cream stores. They have 31 flavors, and I can always find something I like.
"In Colorado Springs, Colorado, where I am a pastor, we enjoy 90 FLAVORS OF CHURCHES. Most of them stand on Christ as their cornerstone and embrace the Bible as their authority. So in each of them, you can discover the same basic truths that make eternal life available to all people. ...
"When I talk about various ‘flavors’ in the body of Christ, I am not promoting an ecumenical or humanistic movement that embraces all people of all faiths as brothers and sisters. I am not suggesting that we share the same communion with Muslims, Buddhists, New Agers or others who don’t acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the only source of salvation.
"Instead I am saying that we need to appreciate the respected interpretations of Scripture that exist in the many Christian denominations. And I believe the Lord planned for local churches to be different and distinct for a reason.
"Let’s say that on Main Street USA there are five Christian churches. Let’s also assume that each of the pastors has elected to focus on the absolutes of Scripture. There is a Presbyterian, Baptist, Catholic, charismatic and Methodist. ...
"What’s the bottom line? Our primary purpose does not require every church to reach every person. That would be impossible. Besides, God wants to reach the world through His many-member body. ...
"Have you erected any fences between your church and the congregation down the street? have you judged other Christian groups in your heart, or openly criticized them? I BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CALLING US TO MOVE OUR FENCES AND DEMONSTRATE TO A WATCHING WORLD THAT WE ARE UNITED" (emphasis added) (Ted Haggard, "We Can Win Our Cities ... Together," Charisma, July 1995, pp. 34-36).
This is an incredibly unscriptural testimony, but it has the ring of truth to many weak Christians.
BigMack
Becky
I f you are talking about that abomination being cooked up by the UN, Ted Turner, and some others, you are right, IMHO to be repelled by the idea . (Look, we CAN agree on SOMETHING )
Becky
Yep, the whole concept is if you believe in God, you're one of them.. The Devil believes in God. Satanists believe in God. They must be welcome in the movement to win the cities for god. Or to put it in Catholic terms: Satanists have objective truth - in that they believe in God.
Thats another story in its self and is a bunch of crap.
(Look, we CAN agree on SOMETHING )
Your starting to come around dadwags. :)
BigMack
The book of Ephesians was written to christians that believed in Pauls teachings of the Gospel, which was there is only one way to salvation. Ecumenism is a movement that wants everyone who believes in God to all get together no matter what their doctrinal beliefs are. So the verse you quoted from Ephesians does not apply here. Becky Becky I do not think you read my statement carefully.In fact I can`t believe sonmeone did not call me on it before now. In the context that I made it in the ephesians 4 applies. I first explained where the error in my statement was and I rephrased it to clarify what I had meant to say. I do disagree that we are not to get along as believing christians and the article from the preacher in colorado is being misunderstood also. I know it may be rude to go off and leave after astatement like that but I have to go to an appointment. I will check back later though.
why are you stating this about this article
This is an incredibly unscriptural testimony, but it has the ring of truth to many weak Christians. Big Mack
BigMack
why are you stating this about this article
This is an incredibly unscriptural testimony, but it has the ring of truth to many weak Christians. Big Mack
He is not talking about a true ecumnical communion with Muslims, Buddhists, New Agers or others who don’t acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the only source of salvation. But he is talking about a so called Christian ecumnical movement, that all Christian religions get together.
DOCTRINE IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE PREFERRED LIKE ICE CREAM; IT IS SOMETHING TO BE GROUNDED IN, CONVINCED OF, DOGMATIC ABOUT, MILITANT FOR. This is what the Apostle Paul said about doctrine: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to THE DOCTRINE WHICH YE HAVE LEARNED; and avoid them" (Romans 16:17). Paul instructed Timothy not to allow ANY OTHER DOCTRINE (1 Timothy 1:3). Jude instructed God’s people to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints (Jude 3). The ecumenical approach described in the previous article is forbidden and condemned because it downplays doctrinal purity. God intends the Christian to be grounded in apostolic doctrine and apostolic doctrine ALONE. Every false doctrine is to be rejected. Haggard claims we should look upon false doctrine as merely another flavor of ice cream. God says we are to look upon it as a great error.
BigMack
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