Dane-Geld

Rudyard Kipling | Rudyard Kipling

[Clive]

It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say:--
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation for a reach and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:--
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:--

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that pays it is lost!"

[Clive]

The appeasers are out in full force.

[dandelion]

Rudyard BUMP...

[harpseal]

The appeasers will be the death of us. Kipling should be madatory reading for all.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Victory

[Chairman Fred]

BTTT

[Peter Libra]

Right on and I am not forgetting my English elementary school history. The teacher positively glowed, telling us of King Alfred the Great of Wessex. The story of his burning the cakes and being scolded by an irate housewife(who knows if it was true), was told again. Alfred reasoned ,if a woman who had charge of her house could stand up to him- a king, and berate him for not watching her cakes on the hearth, then what sort of a man was he, if he couldnt stand up to the Vikings(Danes).? He rallied his forces and won. Alfred (849AD -889AD). Quote from Websters Dictionary ".....defeated the Danes and promoted English culture". Have to give something later on a course, T/V is on. Oprah Winfrey is giving a course -"Islam 101". Nauseating it is. Spouse is studying it though.

[LarryLied]

This is why I never buy danish pastries. Over rated and too expensive.

[Dane]

The appeasers are out in full force.

Huh, I didn't read that Neville Chamberlain said that "peace in our time" would take years.

Of course anybody who doesn't toe the line that Afghanistan should be a sheet of glass, is probably 100 times worse than Nevile Chamberlain to you

Oh BTW, I do see the irony of me posting on this thread.

[Martin Tell]

What is this gratuitous Dane-bashing? The vast majority of Danes are peaceful, loving, caring 'n sharing folks. Danism is one of the world's greatest religions. We should not allow the tragic events of 9/11 to be an excuse for Dane-bashing of the worst sort. As for King Alfred (so-called great), his gross anti-Danism is hardly acceptable as a role model. I am shocked at your insensitivity (BTW, to remove any misunderstanding, I am being sarcastic).

[SEA]

History-repeating-itself BUMP

[LarryLied]

This is hearsay evidence so I will retract it if needed but I hear Tivoli Gardens is not what it was decades ago when my parents took me there. What does it say about a country where a major amusement park is unfit to kids to see?

[Dane]

This is hearsay evidence so I will retract it if needed but I hear Tivoli Gardens is not what it was decades ago when my parents took me there. What does it say about a country where a major amusement park is unfit to kids to see?

Never been there or Denmark. The only person I know who has been at Tivoli Gardens was my brother who went there 25 years ago as part of his backpack trek through Europe(Eurail pass in hand).

He said it and Denmark was nothing special, except for the Tuborg brewery tour.

[Peter Libra]

I take your point in all good humour and enjoyed it. Of course, one can be excused in this matter. Way,way back, over 1100 years ago, a brave little train of monks and hopefully, nuns, went on a 200 mile jaunt south. They were from the abbey of Lindisfarn on the North East coast of England. Well, the beautiful illuminated manuscripts, they saved are still preserved in London. The rather uncouth gentleman from what is now Denmark, pillaged and burnt Lindisfarn after they left. Ok, ok, I want and demand an apology. Oh, on second thoughts- One, Brian Nielsen of Denmark is to clash with tiger Mike Tyson in the boxing ring. If he puts up a good fight, nix the apology. I say hopefully nuns, because monks could enjoy feminine company those days!

[Clive]

Ad hominem remarks are not helpful. Nor is it helpful to impute motives without evidence.

What gave you the idea that I want to turn Afghanistan into a sheet of glass?

What I want is that the terrorists be put out of business, wherever they may be found and without regard to their motives or their targets or any so-called "root causes".

What is it that you want?

[JimRed]

What is this gratuitous Dane-bashing?

I think they used to call 'em VIKINGS; we red-headed Irish were one result of not paying the Dane Geld!

[Dane]

Ad hominem remarks are not helpful.

Then why was your first reply?

The appeasers are out in full force.

---------------------------------------

What I want is that the terrorists be put out of business, wherever they may be found and without regard to their motives or their targets or any so-called "root causes".

What is it that you want?

I took from your first reply, that you also are impatient about the "lack of response"(so far). I want the same thing you want that you stated in your above italicized statement, but I do not think that this will be "simple". It will be a long process and as I stated in reply #7, I do not equate patience with appeasement.

[Martin Tell]

I am happy to report that the last time I visited Tivoli Gardens (July 2000) it was still a wonderful, happy, wholesome place. I worked in downtown Copenhagen and had a season pass to Tivoli. It was a great place just to stroll through - I found it very peaceful with beautiful gardens. The rides are not up to Disney standards, but the crowds are not either. My wife took the kids four months ago and she did not mention any problems. The only problems I have heard of are financial. Tivoli is owned by Carlsburg/Tuborg. They complain that they are losing money and threatened to sell (to Americans; the Danes were appalled, especially since Michael Jackson was mentioned as a possible buyer. Don't know if any sale went through, but I don't think so). Med Velig Hilsen.

[SES1066]

The teacher positively glowed, telling us of King Alfred the Great of Wessex.

The ONLY English/British King to be given the appellation of "the Great". My chuckle on this, is that he was not 'really' British, being a descendant of the Saxon invaders of the 5th thru 7th centuries. He was probably more closely related to the Danes / Scandinavians than to the original Bretton/Gaul/Celts who were the majority of Roman Britannia and still were the majority population.

Of course he was, in truth, fighting and defending Britain and formed the true kernal of the future ENGLAND. Arthur was legend/myth, Alfred was fact and GREAT!

[Martin Tell]

That's exactly right. Not many people know that Dublin was a major Viking city. Ancient Viking ships raised in Zealand (they are now in the Danish Viking Ship Museum) were proved to have been built with Irish timber.

[SES1066]

Kipling also has words for us at this time - if we substitute 'Americans' for 'English' in the copy of "The Beginnings". It was obviously written for the 'Great War' but the last stanza really speaks to me as we measure everything from 09/11/01. Look for all of Kipling's poems here!

The Beginnings

1914-18

"Mary Postgate"-- A Diversity of Creatures

   It was not part of their blood,
     It came to them very late
   With long arrears to make  good,
     When the English began to hate.

   They were not easily moved,
      They were  icy-willing  to  wait
   Till  every  count  should  be  proved,
     Ere  the  English  began  to  hate.

   Their voices  were  even  and  low,
     Their  eyes  were  level  and  straight.
   There was neither sign nor show,
     When  the  English  began  to  hate.

   It was not preached to  the  crowd,
     It was not taught by the State.
   No man spoke it aloud,   
     When  the English began to hate. 

   It  was  not  suddenly  bred,
     It  will  not  swiftly abate,
   Through  the  chill  years  ahead,
     When Time  shall  count from  the date 
     That the English  began  to  hate.

[Martin Tell]

"God save us from the fury of the Northmen." Lindesfarn comes up very often in lives of the British saints. I suppose that raid is the best known of all Viking actions. I find it interesting that although the Vikings had a great empire and their influence spread from Russia to Canada to Constantinople, there are no notable battles associated with them. The only one I can remember (and the name escapes me) is the battle Harold fought (and won) shortly before Hastings.