Posted on 10/03/2001 10:26:11 PM PDT by malakhi
SD
That's your problem. He presents no evidence for your claim either. I won't be worn out on it. A claim in absence of proof is not a fact by default. And given evidence to the contrary it is even less credible. Just because you keep presenting things that say "so and so believes it" doesn't make your evidence any more credible or your case proven. Just tells me you cried long enough for someone to relent and put a bottle in your mouth.
The "Biography" channel is running a 2 hour special all week I believe, on the Inquisition, it was on at 8 to 10am this morning, and it is on again now, I watched it just long enough this morning to get in a bad attitude when I thought about our friends telling us that the Pope is the leader who has the Holy Spirit, and it is a different Spirit then others have.
And as I watched the autrosities that the pope had authorized, I thought, thank goodness not everyone has the same spirit as they have.
SD
Yeah. I'm not sure about this, but I don't think it would be impossible as petra is the noun and just happens to be feminine. Classical means in the time of antiquity, so well before the coming of Christ and before Alexander and co., etc...
You call the foundation of the church Petra. It is a state of being word used to mean "A Mass of Rock" where petros means "A piece of Rock". Sized counts, and none is bigger than Jesus. And since the Congregation is built upon the confession that he is the son of God, it is perfectly fitting. The grammar arrangement of the greek verbage is structured around the fem. word as well, so it was not put there by mistake! Like the Saducees and Pharisees you can read the weather but can't understand the spiritual. Read the beginning of the Chapter. Read the multiple postings of spiritual references to Jesus being the Rock. And you are still stuck having to either admit to yourself that Jesus is the spiritual Rock and foundation of the Church, or denying it in order to lift Peter to a pedastal in order to prop up (weakly I might add) other false claims. The Pope is a made up office intended in early years to be an emperors role. Suckers bought the decretals at that time; but, in the information age, we're better informed. And those of us who know Jesus already know better on the Bible related things.
Now how would I go about caling a man a big big big rock in Greek?
You call the foundation of the church Petra. It is a state of being word used to mean "A Mass of Rock" where petros means "A piece of Rock". Sized counts, and none is bigger than Jesus. And since the Congregation is built upon the confession that he is the son of God, it is perfectly fitting. The grammar arrangement of the greek verbage is structured around the fem. word as well, so it was not put there by mistake! Like the Saducees and Pharisees you can read the weather but can't understand the spiritual. Read the beginning of the Chapter. Read the multiple postings of spiritual references to Jesus being the Rock. And you are still stuck having to either admit to yourself that Jesus is the spiritual Rock and foundation of the Church, or denying it in order to lift Peter to a pedastal in order to prop up (weakly I might add) other false claims. The Pope is a made up office intended in early years to be an emperors role. Suckers bought the decretals at that time; but, in the information age, we're better informed. And those of us who know Jesus already know better on the Bible related things.
Let me check again...
Nope, I don't think I said "Havoc please grace me with another of your tirades about how stupid and demonically posessed I am." Thanks anyway.
Now since you spent a good deal of time on the last thread, post 120, explainaing the Greek language I thought I would ask you a question. Your reluctance to answer shows the entire world what the answer must be. Your latest pointless bloviation about how I can't understand the Bible is a distraction.
I asked you a question about Greek usage and as you appointed yourself teacher of all things Greek in the previous thread I thought you could answer a simple question. I guess I was wrong.
SD
Thank you again for your reasonable response. Your post above seems to indicate that "petros" to mean a large rock was a Classical usage, where I have seen the counter claim (hardly surprising) that the little/big male/female distinction was Classical and had disappeared by the time of the NT's writing.
Wasn't the word "lithos" more common at the time to describe a small stone?
SD
You're the one saying insignificant and trying to paint it in a bad light. The others understood what was being said quite plainly. We can see it quite plainly. You suddenly sound like a liberal: "It's not fair that Jesus should call himself a Massive Rock and Peter a Stone. Wahhhhhhh." That's such a load of manuer.. I suppose I'd be demeaning you now If I said "Jesus is greater than you." It's true, but it's by no means a slur.
Jesus would need only have said that Peter was the Petra now. He didn't say that, nor could he say that. And it is illustrated in the fact that not once in the entire new testament is Peter referenced after this point with the Greek word Petra. That word is reserved, and not for Peter.
Peter was called Petros prior to this event, and he was called Petros after this event. Cephas is equivelant to Petros. It is not, however, equivelant to Petra. Therefore, trying to hide behind the word 'Cephas' is about as effective as a 300 pound man trying to hide behind a toothpick.
I would expect such from you. However it's unbecoming of Our Lord, who came to raise us to adopted Son of God status, to either put down us or inflate Himself.
How would I go about calling a man a very very big rock in Greek?
SD
Why would a man be named something feminine? Wouldn't it be more fitting to just use the masculine ending. I wouldn't call a girl "Michael," I'd use "Michelle." But she would still be named after the Archangel.
Peter was called Petros prior to this event, and he was called Petros after this event. Cephas is equivelant to Petros. It is not, however, equivelant to Petra.
Oh do tell. So Cephas is Aramaic for "small rock?"
SD
Simon Barjona, Simon Peter, and Peter were used interchangeably prior to 16:18. Cephas is the equivalent of Petros - which is not a name change but rather shows that people understood what his name meant in another language and applied it - Just as is don in modern Spanish classes. OOPS. One can read prior to 16:18 and see the Greek word Petros applied to Peter and look at 16:22 (immediatly after) and see the same Greek word used for Peter (Petros, not petra or any other). There was no name change.. None.
SD
4. Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
The fact that there were two Simon's could be a factor in why he named one of them Peter.duh
SD
in which Matthew wrote or the Aramaic in which Jesus spoke.
20 Posted on 10/04/2001 06:03:05 PDT by allend
Do you mean to say that the L-rd who was at the foundation of the universe
did not speak the language of His chosen People ?
Did not the L-rd who preached in the Temple to the Pharisees Speak in Hebrew ?
I think there is ample evidence that Jesus the Christ spoke in Hebrew.
Tehillim (Psalm) 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
XeniaSt
Where?
I see ample evidence preserved in the Passion story of Jesus saying "My God my God why have you abandoned me" in Aramaic. since it is Him citing a Psalm, why wouldn't He have used Hebrew then? Or why would a person writing in Greek preserve Jesus' Hebrew words in Aramaic?
You have a confusion about the person of Jesus. He had to learn things just like a regular human being. He did not posses infinite knowledge while on earth. He had to learn to tie his shoes (er, strap his sandals) and learn to read and write and talk and get weaned from the breast just like a normal human.
SD
duh.....because he never spoke to them, so it didn't matter? <;-(
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