Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[jo6pac]

I know there must be lots of people who can't load this thread.
When y'all get ready for a new one, let me know.

This thread is now at 643Kb.

[COB1]

"No Marine was ever honored for what they received. Honor was the reward for what they gave." (Anonymous)

Thanks, Snow Bunny!

[Norb2569]

Well, I guess I got to this thread a few days late, but I knew if I kept reading I would find your input, Don. I am extremely proud and honored to have earned the title "United States Marine".

I transferred to the FMCR in '92 after 22 years. Got my transfer to the retired list earlier this year. I have felt so LEFT OUT since September 11th.

I got an email from another retired Marine and told him I wish I could go back and be a part of this effort to actively protect our country.

He directed me to the official Marine Corps website. I went there and sure enough there is a link for retired Marine to volunteer for recall to active duty!!

After getting clearance from "COMMARFORKITCHEN" (my wife), I clicked on the link and officially volunteered for recall to active duty!

Now I've got to get off this dadgum computer and get my fat ass out and running to get back in shape!!

Semper Fi,
Norb

[7thson]

In 1982, the USMC dress uniform was featured in GQ magazine. That's how sharp it is!

[Justin Thyme]

Don't take a condescending tone....I've served over 11 years in the Corps and have red ink in my log book. I am exceptionally aware of the band of brothers atmosphere, and had exceptional bonds with my combat crew.

On the other hand, perhaps you need to go back to my prior post and try rereading it a little slower (using your attitude....if you need help with the big numbers, it was post 371). I explicitely stated that until social consciousness and preferential treatment changes in our society (not likely any time soon), it would not work well.

In a nutshell, make sure you read the full post, and not just focus in on a sentence or two. Semper Fi!

[68 grunt]

Besides returning my condescention you didn't address my points. What was your combat experience?

[sean327]

I did a Westpac on your old "Gator Frieghter" and one on her sister ship the Tripoli LPH-10. Sorry but it allways seemed to me that the sailors cleared the ships store first. It didnt really matter because you guys usually shared stuff with us jarheads. My only complaint was midrats really sucked, but we would still sneak onto the mess decks for it any way.

[pepperdog]

"Can you understand the psyche of the average citizen who is expecting every uniform to do its duty?" If you are referring to yourself as "average" please let me put your mind at ease. In no way are you "average", in fact I would guess on the 1 to 10 average scale you would measure about a -9. About your "psyche" only your analyst knows for sure, but I have my suspicions. Out of control fear is not a pretty thing to see. Go quickly and get some help. Signed: Average Citizen

[Justin Thyme]

8 months in the Persian Gulf, and 6 in Somalia flying Huey's. Judging from the "68 Grunt" name, I'm assuming you probably have extensive Vietnam experience. If there is an attempt to attribute validity of our statements to our combat backgrounds, I'll make it easy and conceed.

The point I was trying to make, first off, was that I was very familiar with the Marine Corps, and the commradarie of those in it...and it's requirements for complete trust for those you fight with.

Your comment of "I'm gonna type real slow so that maybe you'll understand" not only implied condescention, but also seemed to show that you didn't read the complete thread, or my posts completely. I agree completely that with how society is today, there is no way that women can effectively be combat troops....first off, since most can't meet the same physical demands, and secondly, because men tend to give them preferential treatment. And I believe that stance, presented in prior posts (read all my posts in this thread) addressed all your points prior to your post.

Semper Fi

[68 grunt]

Well, Semper Fi back at you, and I salute your service.

[68 grunt]

But, revisiting ...

You said, "My real stance was that if a woman meets the exact same physical and psychological demands, and agrees and understands that there will be not type of preferential treatment in any way or form due to their sex, then perhaps they should be allowed to if they desire. Off hand, I don't see our society accepting it anytime soon, nor do I foresee many women agreeing to those terms, or meeting the requirements.

To which I responded, "In combat units a bond is formed between brothers. You value your brother's life more than your own. This bond is very akin to love. You mix a split-tail in with these warriors and this bond, this love and dedication, will become confused and corrupted. Unnecessary chances would be taken to protect her. Her friends would be perceived as 'favored', resentment would develop, unit cohesion would suffer.

I continue to feel this way. Semper Fi

[Justin Thyme]

Thank you sir, as I salute yours!

The way our Vietnam vets have been treated is a crime...but I guess that's for another thread. My Dad did two tours in 'Nam, and government service after that. Due to the government service, and the fact that he was not disabled, he fared better than many.

In the 7 years I've been out of the Corps, it's that commraderie I miss the most. That understanding that the guy sitting next to you, whether you personally like him or not, would willingly and eagerly do absolutely everything in their power to help you or save your life. That's something very special, and something that the average civilian will never fully understand or appreciate.

Semper Fi

[VRWCmember]

Here you go.

LINK TO EHRLICH ARTICLE

[PatrioticAmerican]

Man, between you and 68Grunt, I'd say the Marine Corp salutation is "F*** You!". HA!

[68 grunt]

I disagree. I believe you've seen a cordial difference of opinion. A difference, which upon examination, is inconsequential, and perhaps more of misinterpreting positions rather than actual difference. I understand you'd might get a kick outta seeing former Marines at each other's throat, but it ain't gonna happen.

[Justin Thyme]

I'd second what 68 Grunt said. Misunderstanding, miscommunication (one of the things I hate about message boards...you don't want to be overly verbose, but if you keep it short, it's harder to clearly get a thought across without misunderstanding) yes...any real animosity...not hardly.

In the end, our stances are probably more similar than different. Additionally, I don't think either of us would question the others loyalty to our country, Corps, or other Americans.

Besides...it is called a "band of brothers". You show me a family of brothers that NEVER had a disagreement, or occasionally a fight even...and I'll show you a family that doesn't care! :)

[CHIEF negotiator]

This bond is very akin to love. You mix a split-tail in with these warriors and this bond, this love and dedication, will become confused and corrupted. Unnecessary chances would be taken to protect her. Her friends would be perceived as 'favored', resentment would develop, unit cohesion would suffer.

Reminds me of "Survivor". :-)

BTW, Rudy says, "Let me at 'em". Now that's a warhorse I wouldn't mind sharing a bunker with.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"being a former Marine and a female"

*SALUTE*
from a tin can sailor

[COB1]

"I'd say the Marine Corp salutation is "F*** You!". HA!"

Not by a long shot!
Even if it were, it was between two Marines who would beat your head in if you said to either one of them.
That's what family is all about!

[COB1]

"Now that's a warhorse I wouldn't mind sharing a bunker with."

Yeah, there's a lot of us warhorses around here that would love to share a bunker with you or Rudy or any number of others.
Too bad our bunkering days are over.
We have to sit and chomp at the bit, and let the kids do the job we'd love to do.