Judgment Day: God promised that calamity would follow disobedience. Why are we quick to dismiss it?

Christianity Today ^ | September 25, 2001 | Frederica Mathewes-Green

[Mr. Mulliner]

America's response to September 11th attacks should not be either/or: either repent and accept the attack as a result of national sin or take retribution against those who committed the attacks.

An international war against terrorism is right and good. But we're foolish to think that there's no correlation between this attack and the many ways that our nation has acted with complete disregard to what God has taught in the Bible.

If our founding fathers were here, I have no doubt they would lead us in national repentance. And quite possibly in the war against terrorism.

[Mr. Mulliner]

Thanks for sending me this article. Surprised it wasn't posted already.

[Mr. Mulliner]

Here's something by Frederica Mathewes-Green, one of my favorite editorialists and a regular at World.

[jlogajan]

God promised that calamity would follow disobedience. So why are we quick to dismiss it

Cuz maybe religion is a crock? Ever think of that?

[Mr. Mulliner]

Everyone who has faith has times of doubting. It's natural. Most don't conclude that it's a crock, but if you have great wisdom to offer to the world, preach away.

[John Valentine]

This is the mirror image concept of the loony thinking that led some Muslims to think that they acted to please God by killing innocent people.

Instead, you have it that God acted to kill innocent people because we displeased Him.

I'm sorry, but both of these 'ideas', if the term can be stretched this far, disgrace the entire process of rational thought.

Furthermore, they stray from faith, and blaspheme the Creator.

I can only hope and pray that all who have fallen prey to these errors - blasphemies, really - will come to their senses soon.

[Uri’el-2012]

I would offer : Romans 8:28-36 NIV

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of
those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he
also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be
against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will
he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge
against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that
condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the
right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love
of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or
sword? 36 As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

XeniaSt

[saradippity]

Truer words were never spoken,or ,as in this case,written.(At least hardly ever} One wishes that every American could see this, then I would feel that they have been exposed to the truth and it is up to them to believe it and change. Often I think that most people have no idea of how far we have strayed from the truth. Thanks for a great post!!!!

[Mr. Mulliner]

Instead, you have it that God acted to kill innocent people because we displeased Him.

Although we use the word "innocent" to describe victims of all sorts of tragedies, we use it to mean that they didn't do anything that specifically deserved this tragedy. But th point is that as a nation, we are NOT innocent. And looking at it from the national level, this kind of thing is just the sort of thing that wakens a nation to examine itself and its actions. That can be very God-honoring when we return to God in repentance and humility.

[Timesink]

I look out my window and everything is exactly the same as it was pre-9/11, except there are a few more US flags flying. Some judgement.

Or perhaps God is only angry at capitalists? The bond market especially? <sarcasm>

[Mr. Mulliner]

Xenia, thanks for that scripture. It's one of my favorites in the whole Bible and very appropriate now and always.

I don't know if you were meaning to negate the call to repentance by posting those verses, but if so, I think these words of Jesus are appropriate, if nothing else at least to show that repentance is still a NT concept.

"Those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them -- do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish" (Luke 13:4,5).

JV, this is what I meant in the post above. The fact that people were killed does NOT mean that they were more guilty. It also doesn't mean they were innocent. But these things happen so that others will repent, just like this incident Jesus mentions.

[Mr. Mulliner]

ping

[laredo44]

Today the first thing he asked me was, "Why do you think that happened yesterday?"

I was stumped for a minute. I hadn't thought of exactly that question. I said, "I don't know."

Fr. George said, "It was the punishment of God."

Hadn't thought of that question? Hadn't thought of it? That's about all any of us were doing when weren't mourning the events or admiring the heroes. The author is obviously looking for a device to introduce his "punishment of God" conjecture. The problem is he's told a lie to dramatize his point. This is the way liberals write opinions and report the news. If the facts don't fit the objective, make them up. I expect better from this site.

[wayne_shrugged]

IMHO, G-d is only right, just and good. G-d is not a puppet-master meting out good and bad judgment at random. Rather, G-d set up a perfectly just world where certain laws of cause and effect are in place; we have FREE WILL -- we decide.

We are responsible for what befalls us in the end; by violating certain fundamental laws of cause and effect, WE decide what will happen.

Don't "blame" G-d -- blame ourselves. Change what must be changed and move along...

Too many people in our recent past have "felt" they (left-wingers) can set up the system of their choosing regardless of basic laws of cause and effect -- now they should clearly understand...

[Mr. Mulliner]

Oh, right. Frederica Mathewes-Green is a liberal, huh? You ever read her stuff? I think she's a fantastic writer and you can read her stuff regularly in World magazine if you care to. She's a solid conservative and has years of credentials to prove it. She doesn't need to prove anything to you or anyone else.

You think that question was automatically on the minds of everyone? Yes, in one sense it may have been, but probably going to things like, "Clinton didn't do enough to stop terrorism so that's why this happened." But to see the deep reasons, the spiritual reasons isn't necessarily someone does right off the bat and I don't doubt the author when she says she hadn't considered the question yet. After all, it was just a day after the attack and she was no doubt occupied with many things directly.

[John Valentine]

I suppose that in a pluralistic nation, everyone is entitled to express his heartfelt views.

But I think yours is morally and logically indistinguishable from that of Radical Islam, and is preached by the Taliban and in many Mosques in cities from Karachi to Kansas City. It is a version of Islam that tolerates no sin as they define sin. You are no different.

God help us all if more people think like you. It is truly a frightening thought.

[Mr. Mulliner]

Don't "blame" G-d -- blame ourselves. Change what must be changed and move along.

So you agree with the author? I do too. Blame doesn't belong to God. Repentance is about changing "what must be changed" and moving along.

However, I don't believe that God wound up the world and then stood back. He does interact with people and is personal enough to want to be in relationship with people, to see them turn to Him and trust Him, not try to get by without obeying the rules that He put in place for all of us to obey.

[Mr. Mulliner]

Very insightful. I'd never thought that a call to personal and national humility and repentance for our own sins bore any resemblance to a form of Islam that focuses on condemnation of others and never shows any sign of repentance. When was the last time you heard about the Taliban crying out to God to forgive their sins and to pray for mercy upon them and upon their enemies?

[Sir Gawain]

ping

[John Valentine]

I never said it was symmetrical. They want to kill us for the very same sins you want to repent of.

Well I don't feel I have anything to repent for, certainly not anything that would excuse the thought that God would take lives to bring it to my attention.

What I AM saying is that you and the Mullahs are saying the same thing. America is wicked, sinful, and deserves the chastisement of God.

YOU are agreeing with our enemies!!

Screw you and screw them.