Posted on 09/29/2001 7:49:58 PM PDT by malakhi
As for Mt. 16:18, Jesus promised that he would build his church on the rock (Peter) and the gates of hell would not prevail (to have power over, overpower, prevail against ). From this the Catholics assert that Jesus promised perfect doctrine to his church. I do not see that promise, especially in this verse. I see the promise that God's people will not be overtaken by the gates of hell. I'm not sure how that translates into perfect doctrine or still more, how it only applies to the RCC.
I would disagree. I see the promise as Christ protecting the Church he established from teaching error. I know Protestants have a hard time with this but why in the world would Christ permit error to be taught in his church? Christ is about truth and had no tolerance for untruth.
The Kingdom of God is not the RCC, nor is it even the church.
Agreed. However Christ established a Church and that is what I am referring to
I'm sorry for the tone and name calling. Please forgive me. I've sinned against you and the Lord. Not that its an excuse but I've had bad case of the flu the past couple days and really don't belong here.
Very gracious of you Steven, apology accepted. If I have offended you I also apologize. Sometimes it can get a little heated around here. Hope your feeling better.
Surely he would have been aware of such a broad evolution in understanding of the very basic, the defining event in the history of his religion, and would have taken steps to ensure that his story was correctly understood.
Really? What steps might those have been? Please tell me how an author can assure that someone does not misunderstand or misinterpret what he writes. I might be able to use it with allend.
This is definitely considered heretical. Our denomination broke from other pentecostals over this issue (the oneness folks) in the early part of the previous century. The downside of protestantism (one of em, anyways) is that we have to fight all the heresy battles all over again.
Each church is a voluntary cooperating member of the Assemblies of God. However, in order to belong, one must adhere to our 16 fundamentals of faith where the Trinity is explicitly stated as a fundamental doctrine (Fundamentals of Faith here). If the pastor is teaching this, his license should and can be removed immediately. Further, if the church chooses to follow this belief, their participation in the AOG would be revoked. I seriously doubt that this is being taught at an AOG church, but far stranger things have happened. :(
The same reason He "permits" his followers to sin.
Strange you should compare the accounts of your own religion's founding to Shakespeare's plays.
Strange that you should find it so difficult to understand what I am saying. I AM writing in English, si? If you bother to go back and look at what I wrote, I was comparing YOUR applying your own personal standards to an ancient text from a vastly different culture. The comparison I made was that this is comparable to someone reading Shakespeare and then condemning him for writing lies. The problem is not in the text. The problem is the failure of the reader to understand the author's style and intent.
Shakespeare's plays are fiction, of course, but they are not lies because they do not pretend to be factual.
Shakespeare wrote "historical" plays, too. He does not specifically state that they are fiction. Does that make him a liar? NO! He was writing to entertain and to create a work of art, not to provide a history book.
You are willing to categorize the OT accounts as fiction, and still maintain belief in Judaism. Interesting.
How is it that you are so incapable of understanding what I write? I made it quite clear that I was presenting a hypothetical case. EVEN IF all of these stories were PROVEN to be mythical, you are still left with the Law, a God, a People, and a People's understanding of what they believed God expected of them. This is a BARE MINIMUM. And even this bare minimum is enough for Judaism to exist. I don't of course, believe that this bare minimum is ALL that there is. Again, to emphasize, I was speaking HYPOTHETICALLY. Got it?
Hope you prayed for us.
Y'all are in my prayers daily.
If anyone ever has a specific prayer intent, please post it so that the rest of us can pray for your specific concern.
He served as father of the boy from birth to death.
Are you suggesting that Joseph was still alive when Jesus was crucified? If you answered this already on the previous thread, please ignore. I'm posting my comments here as I read through Thread 151.
Not the same as "permitting" his church to teach error. He gave to the Apostles the full deposit of faith and it did not contain any errors. This deposit of faith has been preserved, protected and taught since the day of Pentecost.
We all have free will and can choose to obey or disobey. However, there are consequences to disobeying.
What is the church? Isn't it the gathered believers? Why should the church exhibit characteristics different than its fundamental components (namely, fallible humanity)? Do church members somehow become infallible with regards to matter of doctrine? If so, by what process? And why doesn't that affect their own sinful natures?
You know angelo, I've thought lately you have been sounding awfully arrogantly righteous:) No offence, just an observation.
Becky, I make no apology for defending what I believe. Nor do I apologize for questioning others about their beliefs. Of course I think that I am right. So does everyone else on these threads. No one else is pulling any punches when it comes to challenging my beliefs. If you observe me cross the line into rudeness or anger, please feel free to point it out to me.
Please refer back to my comments at Thread 149:78.
I remember some time ago when you suggested you would look into the False Decretals and their effect if any, on RCC doctrine.
I haven't gotten very far. Between work and family there is not much time left over! Rather than trying to review every document, what I have done so far is compile a printout of a dozen or so documents that both Catholic and Protestant sources agree are significant. I will report back on this forum once I have have had a chance to review them in depth.
Night
The church is the bride of Christ. That's why he protects it from teaching error. The doctrine is true, behavior is another matter.
Do church members somehow become infallible with regards to matter of doctrine?
Don't know what you mean here. Members of the church are taught true doctrine. However, since we all have free will, we can accept or reject it. What's important is that the Church doesn't teach false doctrine. Even though there are bad Catholics, priests, bishops and even a few bad Popes, it doesn't nullify the doctrine. Behavior and doctrine aren't the same thing.
Nite all
And the tone which we know and love has returned to the NeverEndings.
Boy, you got that right.
Seriously, folks, can we tone down the rhetoric and name-calling a bit? Let's keep the discussion cordial, please. There are, I believe, two reasons that our host Jim Robinson tolerates our ongoing discussion on what is meant to be a political web site. First, it keeps us all in one place, rather than stirring up trouble elsewhere! ;o) Second, because unlike many other religion threads, we have mostly maintained an air of civility. Let's not blow it.
I understand that at one time the Nestorian Church reached all the was into China
This is true. I've read that Marco Polo was astonished to find Nestorian Christians in China when he arrived there. There was also a Jewish presence there. Although that has mostly been wiped out through forced assimilation over the past 50 years.
(And why do my posts have such big gaps at the end?)
John Rob has been tinkering around with the forum software.
Hi al I was just passing through too..kinda surfing around...hows Grace??:>))
Hi Mom! How ya doing? I'd expect that Grace is amazing. ;o)
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