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To: OLD REGGIE
From Thread 151:

I remember some time ago when you suggested you would look into the False Decretals and their effect if any, on RCC doctrine.

I haven't gotten very far. Between work and family there is not much time left over! Rather than trying to review every document, what I have done so far is compile a printout of a dozen or so documents that both Catholic and Protestant sources agree are significant. I will report back on this forum once I have have had a chance to review them in depth.

13 posted on 09/29/2001 9:08:48 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: poet
"If true, how do you explain I Corinthians Chapter 14, Verses 34 & 35? 34: "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but, they are to be submissive as the law also says"< 35: "It is shameful for women to speak in church" Your comments? -----------------------------------------------------------

I think you are taking Paul out of context. Paul was speaking for himself, not the Lord. He does this often and, usually makes a distinction when he is speaking for himself and when he is speaking for the Lord.

A few examples:

1Tim.2
[1]First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
[2] for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
[3] This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[4] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[5] For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
[6] who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
[8]I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
[9] also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire
[10] but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion.
[11] Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.
[12] I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
[13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
[14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
[15] Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Note that Paul begins this letter with "...I urge...

Do you suppose Paul means "men" exclusively in Paragraphs 1-6?

Paragraph 12. Paul is speaking for himself only. He is not speaking for the Lord.
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As to your selection lets see how this letter begins.

1 Corinthians 14:

1 Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.

2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

3 On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. -----------------------------------------------------------

Note Paul is clear about what he wants. Do you suppose we are commanded to "speak in tongues and/or to prosephy"?
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One more:




If you wish to take 1 Cor. 14:34-35 literally, what do you think of this?

1 Tim.3

[1] The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task.
[2] Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,
[3] no drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money.
[4] He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way;
[5] for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he care for God's church?

95 posted on 10/01/2001 9:08:24 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE
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To: angelo
I remember some time ago when you suggested you would look into the False Decretals and their effect if any, on RCC doctrine.

"I haven't gotten very far. Between work and family there is not much time left over! Rather than trying to review every document, what I have done so far is compile a printout of a dozen or so documents that both Catholic and Protestant sources agree are significant. I will report back on this forum once I have have had a chance to review them in depth."

I understand. I just wanted to know if you had posted anything on the subject. This forum moves so fast it is almost impossible to go back and review past postings.

I suspect no matter what you find there will be two diametrically opposed views on the subject:

Catholic Apologists - "No matter False Decretals, Constantine Donations, Forgeries, etc., None of these had any bearing on Catholic Doctrine or practice.

Protestant Sceptics - OH SURE!!!!

I trust you to be one of the more objective observers on this forum but I just don't believe you can win on this subject.
115 posted on 10/01/2001 11:40:52 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE
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