Posted on 09/27/2001 8:25:15 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
ATHEISTS REJECT COUNTRY'S TURN TOWARD PRAYER
CHAMPAIGN, Illinois, Sep 27, 01 (CWNews.com) - The US' largest atheist group has rejected the public expressions of piety in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks, especially those by politicians, according to the student newspaper at the University of Illinois.
Ron Barrier of American Atheists told the Daily Illini that nationally televised prayer services, presidential references to God, and calls to prayer leave atheists feeling forgotten as US citizens. "Nonbelievers were touched by the tragedy just as much as believers were," Barrier said. "All we're doing is asking for a little sensitivity. Just because one does not have religious beliefs does not make one less of a citizen."
"People who want to pray are free to do so, but we don't because we don't understand what they are doing," Barrier said. "It is humans who will clear this debris up, rescue other humans and rebuild the section of New York City. There will be no divine interference involved. People may find comfort in it, but we fail to see what purpose prayer serves."
Shane Taylor, director of the university's Christian Campus Fellowship, proffered an explanation. "It's such a core Christian idea that God wants a relationship with us," Taylor said. "It's like a relationship with anyone else. We're going to communicate with God over matters of the world, and we're hoping the president and other leaders are asking God for wisdom. We've been told we'll receive guidance and answers from God, and that is why we still pray."
As for the claim that President George W. Bush is promoting religion, Taylor said: "Our president is a Christian. His faith is a part of who he is. It's hard to ask the president not to have his faith be a part of how he responds to the attacks."
Do you think an atheist's deathbed prayer is sincere, or just fire insurance (yes, I do believe in the grace of God, but I know that God also examines the motives of one's heart)?
I'd rather dialogue with an atheist with fire in his belly than an agnostic any day. Ever accidentally drink lukewarm water? Kinda gags ya'? That's how I feel debating an agnostic. At least an atheist has the guts to make a decision.
You lost me. I have no idea what you're talking about, I didn't even mention the terrorists at the Trade Center.
You obviously don't know the Scriptures though, if you think the lifestyle and words of a Christian are not a major contributor in the salvation (or not) of the lost.
C.S. Lewis exclaimed it best when he wrote (awful paraphrase) that we are all influences on every person we come into contact with everyday... either pushing them closer to heaven... or hell.
Keith Green said, "This generation of Christians are responsible for this generation of sinners."
Maybe you mistake conservatism for Christianity. They are not one and the same. Patriotism will not earn you a seat at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Repentance and Faith in Christ with the fruit being a life of obedience to God is all that will suffice the wrath of a Just and Holy God.
Attacks were not product of God's lack of protection
Massimo Pigliucci
Columnist Volume 88 Number 25
Wednesday, September 26, 2001
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb,
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus, 1654
I can only hope that this horrible hoax was perpetrated accidentally and not by somebody taking advantage of the human tragedy that hit the United States on Sept. 11, 2001. And yet, it shouldn't take a course in critical thinking to realize that the suspicious thing about prophecies is that we realize what they were predicting only after the events. One could reasonably ask what is the point of a prophecy that can only be understood when it's too late.
Similarly, what good are psychics if they can't warn of specific, imminent danger? For example, multimillionaire future-reader Sylvia Browne was on CNN's Larry King Live just a few days before the terrorist attack. She wasted her talent warning skeptic James Randi that he had something wrong in his left ventricle (it is a good bet that an elderly white American male will eventually have something wrong with his heart) instead of warning everybody on live national TV of what was about to happen. It was her chance to prove herself, and she blew it.
The point of the prophecy is to make you realize the power of mystical inspiration, annihilate your pride in reason and open your heart to God (C13 What the heck, what do psychics and Nostradamus have to do with God?!), not merely to save human lives.
And speaking of God, rabid Christian fundamentalist Jerry Falwell was also out immediately after the tragedy. Was he praying for the victims and offering spiritual guidance to the rest of the nation? No, he was busy explaining why this all happened. According to this monster, the reason all those people died was that God has lifted his umbrella of protection and allowed the tragedy to occur. Apparently, God lifted his protection because of too much secularism, not allowing kids to pray or read the Bible in school (which is not true), and allowing porn on the Web.
These statements are so outrageously stupid and offensive to the memory of the people who died that you would expect them to be immediately chastised by any reasonable Christian who was listening to Falwell. Alas, millions of people are hooked on the words of a man whose worldview is similar to that of the fringe religionists who rejoiced at the attack. It is frighteningly easy to imagine someone prone to Falwell's thinking style becoming someone like bin Laden under different historical circumstances.
Recently, a typical comment on radio talk shows has been, "We need to turn this nation to God."
Well, wake up people, this nation is turned to God. Constantly. God is all over this nation, from the now ubiquitous signs on our highways to the highest density of churches that ever occurred probably in any time or place in the world. Over 95 percent of the citizens of the U.S. profess belief in a personal God (C13 'believing in a god' ain' the same as Beleving and following GOD. What was that Mark Twain quote...) It ain't, and about half of them hold onto at least some of the most fundamentalist views espoused by the innumerable sects that have developed over the last century. Why would God "lift his umbrella" from one of the most adoring places on the whole planet?
More importantly, what kind of a horrible God allows thousands of innocent people to be wiped out in an instant just because somebody posts pornographic pictures on the Internet? Ah, but I forgot that this is the same sort of God that told the Jews to exterminate entire races because they didn't please Him enough, and added that they should slaughter their enemies' children and - for good measure - rape their wives (see Genesis 34:13-29, Exodus 17:13, 32:27-29, Numbers 16:27-33, 21:35, 31:17-28, Deuteronomy 2:33-34, 3:6, 7:2, 20:13-14, and the list can go on) (C13 Did I mention that this hateful goober writes at least once a week for the school paper?). Is this the sort of God that our nation should turn toward? I suggest instead that we try to nuke Him if we can find where in the Hell He hides! (Before the hate mail starts: I do realize that there are plenty of Christians who are equally horrified at what happened: This column is not directed to them).
As the reader can see, this is an angry column. I rarely allow myself this sort of unbridled frankness, but too much is too much even for somebody attempting to style his life after the moderate advise of Epicurus. These people must be stopped, and I'm no t talking only about the Islamic fundamentalists, but about any sort of fundamentalist - religious or not - who thinks he's got the answer to all the world's problems, if only the world would submit to his iron-fisted rule. It is time for all people of good will and good sense to say "Enough!"
- Massimo Pigliucci is a graduate student in philosophy. Some of his ramblings can be found at his website www.rationallyspeaking.org
(rant)Snarl, grrrrr....It's like this EVERY FREAKIN' WEEK. (sarcasm)Of course, the paper is good about printing dissenting opinons. (/sarcasm). I suppose I shouldn't expect any better from such a left wing rag. These guys regularly sing the praises of the Progressive Student Association, whose primary platorm encourages things like "social justice" and "collective ownership" BARF. er, excuse me.(/rant)
What's the problem with these people? Can't they just conduct themselves respectfully during someone else's prayer? What a bunch of losers!
I'm a Christian, but not a Protestant as are most American Christians. If a prayer is offered in a public forum, most likely it will be a Protestant one. Due to theological differences, I often cannot join in the prayer but I find no problem with listening in a respectful manner. If I went into a community with a non-Christian majority, I'd have no problem conducting myself in a similar manner.
I wonder if these folks ever go into a French restaurant and carry on about the lack of Mexican or Greek food on the menu?
I got to agree with you on this one, a least to the extent that it describes some people of all groups ... most often the ones who would actually join an "in-your-face" vocal group esposing their beliefs.
The same holds for those who actually would join the American Nazi Party or march with Fred Phelps or the "reverend" Al Sharpton ... it's like they're just saying "HEY EVERYBODY, LOOK AT ME ! I'M ACTING LIKE AN IDIOT BUT I'M ON TV !!"
So are you suggesting that they should be forced to pray?What on earth in the post lead you to this conclusion. So far, on the entire thread, it appears to me that absolutely no one has demanded that these people pray. Its usually the other way around, with them demanding that we not pray in public.
patent
Faith?
[Terminal] Arrogance, ego, bullshit and pride, perhaps.
But surely, hardly "faith?"
Actually, I can appreciate the agnostic who just isn't sure than the one who has embraced the wrong path. Doubt is a human failing. I understand the list is quite long. ;-)
Another interesting tidbit...
Last night I was watching a piece on TV about the shooting of JFK. I was explaining it to my 9 year old son, and in the discourse I mentioned JFK was the only Catholic president in our nation's history.
He looked at me wide eyed. "The ONLY one dad? Why? Aren't there as many Catholics as any other church?
A good question, one for which I did not have a good answer, or at least one that would satisfy a 9 year old Catholic's mind (without opening up a whole can of worms about institutionalized discrimination.)
But surely, hardly "faith?"
Faith: allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
Yes, faith, if they truly believe that way. Faith is not something that Christians have cornered the market on.
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