Trusting a Surgeon With Your Spine--Ever a Good Outcome?

none ^ | September 25, 2001 | Chemistcat

[ChemistCat]

I was informed today that I may need surgery on at least my #7 cervical vertebra. The words "urgent" and "severe" have been bandied about, and I was so upset (I didn't even go IN to see about this!) that I didn't ask any questions. I don't know anyone who has had a happy outcome from any kind of back surgery, and the upper spine is scarier still. This is definitely a small thing in light of world events, but like the tornado in Maryland, it's definitely added to the grief in my little corner of the world. Any input would be much, much appreciated. My gut feeling is NOT to let anyone cut on me up there. I've had tonsils and gall bladder out but I haven't missed those like I'd miss all bodily functions below the neck.

[LibWhacker]

My wife is a professor of medicine. In addition to her teaching duties, she sees dozens of patients every day, many of whom have had back surgery. She tells me that she's never seen one of these back surgeries turn out well. Yes, the patient may feel better for a while, but the problem always returns, and worse than ever.

I have a terrible chronic back problem myself and I finally ruptured a disk a few years ago while working out. If it hadn't been for my wife talking me out of it, I definitely would've gone under the knife. But I'm real glad now that I listened to her and didn't do it; my back is much better now . . . I just have to be real careful not to re-injure it.

Of course, your situation may not be at all like mine and I'm definitely not a doctor. So I'm not trying to give you medical advice. However, a second opinion is a good idea, I think. My advice: talk to a really good doctor who is NOT a surgeon (surgeons are perhaps a little too eager to start cutting). Go to a teaching hospital. You'll find some of the best docs in the world there. Best of luck to you.

[backhoe]

Whew! Finally found your diagnosis, remarkably similar to what my wife just went thru.....

Yes, if *you* can see it, it is bad! And MRI, myleogams, and X-rays may not reveal the true extent of the damage inside- this is what happened with Emily, it was far, far worse when the surgeon got in & could actually observe the site.

Cut to the chase-- what makes the difference in the outcome of this is the surgeon.... you need to start asking Doctors until you find one or two who have had this same proceedure done on them, with sucess, and use the Doc who did their surgery.

This is what my wife did, and it has worked out fine.

Nothing will fix this problem except mechanical repair- like pinning a broken bone to speed its setting, vs. "just letting nature take its course," there's little choice. Left untreated, the cord will get damaged and it will be grim.

We looked at the non-surgical alternatives, but when I saw the myleogram, I *knew* I had to convince E to get it fixed, fast!

I'm trying to do 10 things at once this AM, so excuse the terseness & maybe lack of coherence, but to summarize:

1- find the Doc that treats the other Docs- sucessfully! Get the one with the best track record of satisfied patients.
2- the surgery is not all that bad- honestly, I've had a harder time, for longer, with some dental proceedures- but it's still a major trauma to your body- expect to take longer to heal than the "ideal" you'll be told; and if you do better faster, count your lucky stars.
3- OK, I just finished with one of the 10 things.... taking Taffy the Fierce out to clear the yard of possums, rats, & terrorists, without barking & waking her Momma up.... the key is getting a good Doc- get that, and all else will fall into place. It really is routine surgery- if you get a careful & competent surgeon.

Oh! and FWIW- Em's doctor started out as a veterinarian before "moving on" to people later--

---

This is my second time trying to get this to go thru.... one other thing- judging doctors? I place great store in

1- a doc who lets your signifigant other stay with you during exams... shows he's not afraid to have another observe what he's doing, and that he is interested in the part the SO plays...
2- is he quick, thorough, yet gentle? A medical guy who isn't raises warning flags with me.... and medical people who are reluctant to touch you are in the wrong line of work, IMO.

[mountaineer]

Darn, my husband isn't around to ask, but I believe his situation was very much like your wife's. The surgery, performed by one of Pittsburgh's finest neurosurgeons, required only a 1-1/2" incision to clean out the material bulging from the discs.

[agrandis]

Glad to hear you got cured. I guess it really depends on the situation. "Back pain" includes a lot of different problems, with a lot of different possible solutions. Forutnately, so far, my off-and-on "back pain" is cured with stretching. I was relieved to find out it was muscular, and not spinal.

[Uriel1975]

And I would definitely try glucosamine hydrochloride or sulfate ~~ the_doc

FWIW, my mother swears by this stuff. Apparently, it will effectively reverse (not just prevent) a lot of degenerative damage, even in late middle-aged and elderly folks...

(as always, of course, your results may vary)

[RnMomof7]

elderly folks...

Ya warm my heart :>)

[Uriel1975]

elderly folks... Ya warm my heart :>) 106 Posted on 09/27/2001 12:34:00 PDT by RnMomof7

Tsk, tsk. Naw, I don't know your age (and a gentleman doesn't ask), I just wanted to emphasize that doc's recommendation of glucosamine has had effective restorative (not just preventative) effect even in folks who were presumed to be a bit too advanced in years for effective self-repair. My Ma probably falls into the "late middle-aged" camp, and she could list you a whole range of physical activities which have become easier for her since she started taking glucosamine. Although I'd add that the six-month timeframe mentioned by the_doc is probably realistic, the effects were not immediate.

Of course, your results may vary.

[RnMomof7]

I don't know your age (and a gentleman doesn't ask)

My 6th baby shares your birthyear...UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..she is expecting baby #1 soon....is that a general hint *grin*

[Geezerette]

So glad you mentioned chiropractors!!! I just got back from an appointment with mine. He kept me "from the surgical suite" as he put it. My problems are mostly lower back, tho, and some upper neck problems.

He has been treating me for a year and a half, and I see gradual improvement all the time! God bless him! He's a Mormon (I am not) and is very faithful with trying to make the procedures as non-invasive as possible. He did tell me at first that I might have needed either the cortisone shots or surgery, so he's not a fanatic or anti-MD practices!

I would echo the chiropractic visit as an alternative. An Osteopath would also be a thought.

God bless and good luck!

g

[kailbo]

There's no way you saw a bulging disc on x-ray. Discs do not show up on x-ray. If the doctor told you, based on an x-ray that you have a bulging disc, I would run out of that office.

Go see a reputable chiropractor in your area and give him 3-4 weeks of treatment before you decide if he's helping or not.

[karsar]

I concur with Hollyweed's remarks at reply number 91.

I would also get the physician who is managing your lupus to give an opinion on whether or not that condition rules you out as surgical back candidate.

In a prior profession, I handled injury claims for an insurance company. In the surgical back cases I managed, there were some that got better after surgery, some did not improve, and a few got worse. I felt the patient's motivation to get well along with the surgeon's skill had alot to do with the result.

Another recommendation: After the MRI, if the orthopedist feels surgery is indicated get a second opinion from another orthopedist from a different medical group and if possible one who works out of a different hospital. If I think of any other recommendations, I'll freepmail you a note.

[ChemistCat]

We didn't see the DISK but we saw bones touching where they shouldn't. That was clear and obvious to me. Now that I know what is going on I can feel how the left side and front of my neck are curved outward, while the right side and back are curved inward, and it's quite noticeable if you're looking for it.

My neck is still between my head and shoulders. :-) I will post another thread when we know more, probably Tuesday or later since my insurance never called the doctor back today so I could reschedule the MRI for tomorrow. It occured to me that if I tell my surgeon (should we do surgery) that hundreds of FREEPERS are following my case, I may overcome the "Tricare Provider Apathy" effect. (Not that I blame doctors for being less than enthusiastic about providing care at a 90% discount.) I'll let you know how well this works and maybe we can do the same for others facing scary procedures. ;-)

Again, I'm just so moved by how much Freepers care about one another. It's like being home. :-) Lots of bickering, but when someone comes in bleeding and crying nobody is worrying about the stain coming out of the carpet later. :)

[Old Student]

My wife will "bump" some people afterward, whatever that means.

I wanted to thank you all for your kind words and advice and caring. It's nice to see that there are still communities in the world. We've had rough rows to hoe before and we'll make it through this one. It's always easier if you know what you're doing! Bill

[backhoe]

Thank you, Bill. One thing I mentioned in a private email to 2Trievers ( who flagged me about this ) that I did not mention here is that 20-25 years ago, not a single person I knew who had "back surgery" was actually better off after it.

But nowadays, the reverse is true- more end up better than worse. They really have improved & refined the proceedures.

The real key is getting a good, competent, and caring surgeon, and the rest will fall into place. Six weeks & 2 days have elapsed since Emily was carved on, and she is getting better each day- but it is slow, and frustrating. However, before the surgery, she was getting noticably worse with every day- to the point where I wondered how she could bear living- the loss of motor control was of course frightful to a professional musician whose life's work is speed & dexterity- but almost worse was the draining, progressive, and profound fatigue. One hour a day up, the other 23 curled in a ball of agony. Life like that is hardly worth living. It did make the choice of treatment very starkly obvious.

Good luck!
John R

[dennisw]

My bad knee has gotten better week by week with glucosomine sulfate and chondroitin sulfate. I didn't see improvements until I took the combo for 3 weeks. I definitely feel more cushioning there when I walk meaning more/thicker cartilage

The brands I take are Enzymatic Therapy 500mg glucosomine sulfate and Source Naturals 400mg chondroitin sulfate. Enzymatic Therapy has  reputation for making the best glucosomine. Source Naturals is just a very good vitamin company. I want companies I can trust for this stuff.

[arepublicifyoucankeepit]

My husband had successful back surgery for a buldging disk in his lower back about 10 years ago. It took him nearly 6 yrs. to fully recover. He's back to work, he is a millwright, which is quite physically demanding.

I agree w/ doc, natural vitamins and minerals will help your body's defenses. I will keep you in my prayers as well that you will find the best help out there.

There is also a new kind of chiropratic care I have just recently started. It's called upper cervical (www.uppercervical.org) They adjust the "atlas" bone which is directly under the skull the brain stem enters there and ALL the nerves pass through the atlas. If this bone is tilted even 1/2 a degree it can cause many health problems as ALL your organs are affected by the nervous system. Some of the problems are: fibromyalgia, migraines epilepsy, ADD, some forms of arthritis, immune system disorders, herniated disks, neck, back, arm and feet pain, sciatica to mention a few. I have just had my first adjustment and it is very gentle, hardly felt it. My atlas apparently has been tilted 1 1/4 degree for a long time. One leg was 1/4 inch shorter than the other (that was remedied immediately). It's too soon for me to know if my shoulder pain will be irradicated but I'm goin for it.

[ChemistCat]

Hi and thanks for responding. I'm terrified of chiropracty because of bone spurs very close to my spinal cord. My neurologist who took care of me when I was pregnant said that in my case, he strongly suggested I not try chiropracty because of the bone spurs and the already damaged nerves. Most people have room for a mistake by those guys, he said, but you don't. This was when my neck problems were not thought to be so severe. I know I wasn't suffering so much neuropathy after the delivery of my daughter, so I thought I was getting better and would be fine by now instead of getting much worse again.

They can't get to the spine from the "other side" and I can't imagine how a chiro. could manipulate the problem vertebrae without pushing "in" from the back. I haven't heard anything about the first cervical vertebra being off, only the C5 & C6, and some less significant problems lower in the back. But now that you bring it up I will ask them about the top one after they have my MRI films.

[ChemistCat]

I sent this link to my mother who has decided to have both of her knees replaced and is trying to talk her doctor into it after two other procedures in the last three years have failed to help her. (I think it's just our year to be Doctor Supporters.)