One Nation....Under Different Gods?

In his role as president of the United States, George W. Bush publicly defended Muslim-Americans while visiting the Islamic Center of Washington, D.C. last Monday. Bush strongly condemned the victimization of Arab-Americans that has followed the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, and underscored an Islamic group's reports of a widespread backlash.

At a press conference [last] Monday, the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) claimed to have received reports of more than 350 attacks against Arab Americans around the country, ranging from verbal harassment to physical assaults. They also received reports of dozens of mosques firebombed or vandalized.

Attorney General John D. Ashcroft said the FBI had initiated 40 hate crimes investigations involving reported attacks on Arab American citizens and institutions. Among them is the case of a Pakistani Muslim store owner who was shot and killed in Dallas Saturday evening.

Imam Hassan Qazwini, religious leader of Islamic Center of America in Detroit, echoed these concerns, saying, "I know Arab-Americans are loyal citizens to this country, and they are saddened and shocked for what happened to their fellow Americans in New York and Washington. I don't want to see Arabs and Muslims in America being accused or viewed with suspicion."

In his remarks, Bush said, "Both Americans and Muslims ... were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens. These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that."

Bush added, "The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

But one leader of a ministry that serves the persecuted church in the Islamic world disagrees. Speaking only under condition of anonymity because of the political sensitivities associated with his position, he explained: "Islam does not mean peace; Islam means submission." Many American Muslims "are in complete ignorance of what their faith really teaches," as some Christians are about theirs.

He pointed to a verse in the Koran that says, "When war becomes inevitable, it must be pursued with vigor, the fighting may take the form of a slaughter, or capture ... or ambush or other stratagems." That is not "peaceful."

Yet this minister also emphasized that Christians should pray God will show Muslims that Jesus is the lamb of God.

This, perhaps, is one of the most troubling aspects of the attack on America ... this undercurrent of "Holy War." Not to mention grappling with the seeming contradictions of Islam. And how do Christians reconcile righteous indignation over the attack with the command to love even their Muslim neighbors? Hate the sin but love the sinners? Certainly, there are no easy answers.

According to The Barnabas Fund, a ministry that serves the suffering church in the Muslim world, Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was a complex character whose attitudes and opinions changed and evolved during his lifetime in response to events around him. It is not surprising, then, to find that Islam is a complex faith, and cannot be pigeon-holed as peaceful or violent or under any simple heading.

"Islam" means "peace" we are often told by Muslim and non-Muslim alike, says The Barnabas Fund News. "Even before Tuesday, some newspapers and TV broadcasts tended to paint a glowing picture of Islam as a religion of peace, modesty, morality, self-discipline and family values, sadly tainted by the violence of a few fundamentalists. Muslim minorities nevertheless continued to complain of Islamophobia, and felt themselves unjustly portrayed in the media as terrorists."

The truth falls not so much in the middle between these two extremes of peace and violence, says The Barnabas Fund News, but manages to embrace both extremes at the same time.

"It is true that many individual Muslims are peace-loving and law-abiding," agrees The Barnabas Fund News. "But it is not true that peace is the main characteristic of Islam. It is not even true that the word 'Islam' means 'peace.' In fact it means 'submission.' Islam as a faith emphasizes submission of Muslims to God and, by a logical extension, the submission of non-Muslims to Muslims."

Joseph P. Gudel, writing in the Winter/Spring 1990 issue of the Christian Research Journal, said, "The Muslim world view does not compartmentalize and dichotomize the various areas of life. It is holistic: its beliefs are incorporated into every area of daily living.

"This is evidenced by the all-encompassing Islamic rules which regulate all aspects of daily life," Gudel continued, "including how one should dress, bathe, eat, and so on. The devout Muslim is called to prayer five times each day, an obligation assiduously obeyed. In sum, no part of the Muslim's daily life is separate from his Islamic beliefs. Even the word 'Muslim' means 'one who submits' (to Allah)."

And what about "Allah?" some may wonder. Isn't that simply another name for God? Lee Strobel interviewed Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias about such questions in his book, "A Case for Faith."

"Some people say that when you strip away everything," Strobel said to Zacharias, "all the world religions are essentially teaching the universal fatherhood of God and the universal brotherhood of humankind. That would mean all the world's faith systems are equally valid."

According to Strobel, Zacharias shook his head, his face registering dismay. "Only someone who doesn't understand the world religions would claim they basically teach the same thing. Islam ... and Christianity are distinct and mutually exclusive doctrines."

In addressing the charge of "intolerance" when Christians assert that Jesus is the only way to heaven, Zacharias explained, "Muslims also radically claim exclusivity - not just theologically, but linguistically. Muslims believe that the sole, sufficient and consummate miracle of Islam is the Koran."

He added, "I know of no Christianized country where your life is in danger because you are from another faith. But today there are many countries in the world - such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran - where to become a follower of Christ is to put your life and your family at risk."

Christian commentator Cal Thomas noted: "While it is important not to condemn all Muslims because of [the] terrorist attack, it is also crucial to understand the mindset and intentions of those who hate us.

"America's enemies know us better than we know them," Thomas said. "They take their faith in a false god more seriously than we take our faith in the true one. Be careful with what you see and hear."

Jerry Rose, president of Total Living Network, and author of "Deep Faith for Dark Valleys," tries to strike a balance without compromising: "Yes, we need to bring these people to justice, but we do not need to marginalize the rest of the Muslim world," he told Religion Today.

He pointed out that both the terrorist attack and the immediate backlash against Muslim Americans are "unscriptural, illegal and immoral."

Our anger needs to be directed toward those responsible, says Rose, not the people in our neighborhoods who often moved to the United States to get away from the more radical countries.

Regarding Islamic theology, Rose says it is wrong. "But Christ sees Muslims as lost and it is our responsibility as His followers to reach out sensitively without compromising our own faith. We need to remember the church is an organization that exists primarily to take care of nonmembers."

Rose cautions that, above all, Christians should not blame God for this horrendous act of terrorism. "There is sin in the world and sin destroys. We are told in Romans that 'The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.' If mankind chooses sin, then death will inevitably follow. If we choose His gift, then salvation follows, along with the blessing that comes with following His plan for us."

Brother Andrew of Open Doors said in his book, "For the Love of My Brothers" - "I cannot stress strongly enough my sense of urgency that we reach out to as many Muslim and Arab groups as possible while they are still reachable, because anyone who is reachable is also winnable. We've seen that there is a startling openness to the gospel among some of these people. But unless we go to them now in love and influence them in a Christian direction, the ongoing cycle of violence and revenge will force them to take hard-line, extremist positions. Then they will come to us - the Christian West - in judgment."

What do you suggest besides pray for them? Are you going to preach the gospel to them at the check out line of the grocery store? Or perhaps party crash a Mosque? Do you know of any strong Christian leaders that will influence them?

Do you have any idea of who those muslims were standing with Bush in that mosque? They were the heads of charity fronts for terrorist organizations. Do you know who that Mulah was at the National Cathedral? These are the "moderate" muslims.

80% of Mosques preach some radical fundamentalism according to reports and they give to these charity fronts. In several American cities they danced in the street for joy over the terrorist victory. There is a time to preach and a time to save your rear.

Our corrupt politicians have placed us in a position that we may only have day's or weeks in which to solve the danger they have placed us in. I would love to hear some ideas on how to reach the muslims in America. If anyone posts some good ideas that are doable, please bump me, I would love to see what they have to say.

Was Amos a prophet or just unpatriotic?

Most of these guys would have probably been defined as unpatriotic at the time. Most of them were executed or otherwise persecuted because of it. It is only in hindsight that prophets are recognized for what they are.

Incidentally, it makes me wonder about the preponderance of wannabe "prophets" in America today... I get the feeling they actually *want* the job for the *status* which is something a prophet *never* has had in the past. What makes them think it's different now?

christianiaty is an imperialist religion.

I would assume you mean Christianity, and that you're thinking of high-church types. (e.g. Catholic, Anglican) - which aren't what comprises the True church necessarily. There are those in those types of churches which *are* of the real church, but as in any legal church body, there are those that don't really believe. You have to look beyond the formal church structure to find real Christianity.

(I like to use Jehovah because it includes the Chosen People of Jewish faith, to which we "Christians" were grafted into through faith in Christ.)

However, they themselves refrain from using the Lord's proper name. They also feel uncomfortable when we use God - because they know we use it as his proper name. Someone on FR told me that they are ok with us using "Lord." So to be respectful of their religious beliefs, it would be probably wiser to use Lord than the hybridized "Jehovah" which is simply a fudging "trying to pronounce" the unpronounceable Tetragrammaton.

If anyone posts some good ideas that are doable, please bump me, I would love to see what they have to say.

103 Posted on 09/25/2001 06:40:00 PDT by MissAmericanPie

With all due respect, sincerely, what the Lord said is good enough for me:

"A new commandment I give you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another... Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their WORD; that they all may be one; as thou, father, are in me, and I in you, that they alsomay be one in us; THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE SENT ME." John 13:34-35 and John17:20-21

Maybe if we did what He said and spent more time and effort in loving each other, the world would notice, stop and say "What it is about those people. I want it too."

And so, I lay down the sword in our debate. And I pray for the world....that He will fill our hearts with love and not hatred...because without love, we are nothing.

"Marry a really good Christian woman. She will be more than enough. ;-)"

Amen. And for the women, likewise a good Christian man.

BTW, did you know that in the scripture: " a man shall cleave to his wife" the word "cleave" can be interpreted to mean "never stop chasing." I love that. Who would not want to submit to a husband who loved his wife as Christ loved the Church and never stopped chasing her!!!!! :~)

Certainly we should love one another, but, this scripture that you have pulled up has to do with the love of the "desciples" for one another, which hardly equates with how you are to deal with an enemy out to kill you.

"Sell your coat and buy a sword", indicates we should engage in self defense. So if your talking about following God's will, his will is that you defend yourself from death. We have a very short time to figgure out how to do that. Even at that it is not going to be up to you or I but it will be left in the hands of those that put us in this position in the first place, corrupt politicans in actions that border on treason, who have allowed our enemies in the gates.

I thought the following post was particularly succinct and appropriate for some of the discussion here.

"I prefer to think of our duty as destruction of the enemy by whatever means necessary. We are not killers, but if our enemies choose to die rather than surrender, then they will die.

It is not a body count we are after. That makes us no better than the terrorists. You see, that IS what they want to do: Kill as many of us as they can.

We are after a destruction of their organization, their dedication to their cause, their cause itself, by whatever means necessary. We strike them until they cannot answer back, until they doubt that any dedication they once had to their cause was ever a wise course to take.

That's what we did with Imperial Japan and what we did Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. We destroyed any and everything that made them a cohesive threat. The body count was incidental. Hordes and hordes of German prisoners of war with their hands on their helmets and their weapons stacked in long rows were testaments of that.

We are a peace-loving people; our enemies are not. We love life; our enemies do not. We love freedom and liberty and justice; our enemies despise them.

Do not reduce us to the level of their bloodlust. We lust for no one's blood. But we lust for our liberty and will have no man or force of nature stand between us and it."

2 Posted on 09/19/2001 18:08:29 PDT by Illbay

Thanks, Illbay.

Do you forget the massacre at Cordova in April 1014? 1500 dead.

Or Granada, 1066? 1500 dead.

Or the first Crusade in April to June 1096? 20,000 dead in Northern France and Germany

How about 1143 in Ham, France? 150 dead, villiage wiped out.

Or Toledo, 1355, 2000 dead?

Or Lemberg, May 1667? 500 dead

My source? Here

Knitebane

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