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1 posted on 09/22/2001 8:20:51 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Nita Nupress
If we are at war with terrorism, why don't we spend a couple hundred billion (howeve much it takes) on civilian defenses to biological warfare? Is there a petition or movement to join for this?
2 posted on 09/22/2001 8:29:36 AM PDT by gjenkins
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To: jedediah smith EverOnward Alamo-Girl PhilDragoo OwenKellogg logos RightOnline UncleBill aristeides
fyi
3 posted on 09/22/2001 8:30:54 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Nita Nupress
I hope behind the scenes we are letting it be known that we have some pretty horrible weapons ourselves and will not hesitate to use them if we even suspect something like this is even considered. Stuff that would make them wish we had nuked them instead.
6 posted on 09/22/2001 8:35:14 AM PDT by riri
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To: ratcat cajungirl Patriot_from_CA Jesse maestro rstevens Cascadians WyldKard shortstop vigilo Osinski
Flagging people from the thread that spawned this one...
Ex-CIA Microbiologist Reveals Iraqi Plot to Attack US With Biowarfare by 2002
8 posted on 09/22/2001 8:42:31 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Nita Nupress
While not impossible. The probability of Biological attack against humans is rather low. The reason: the organism can come back and bite the nation or group which releases the agent. Disease does not respect borders. More likely plant and animal pathogens will be used to create famine.
10 posted on 09/22/2001 8:44:06 AM PDT by HENRYADAMS
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To: all
Wish I could stick around to read comments but have to run. Will be back later in the day.
12 posted on 09/22/2001 8:46:35 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Nita Nupress
You knew I'd find this post didn't you...bookmarked.
Heard from the Pooh?
16 posted on 09/22/2001 9:33:32 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Nita Nupress
I'll cross-link your post to this one I did earlier:

NBC/ABC Warfare Survival Skills Links

18 posted on 09/22/2001 9:50:22 AM PDT by backhoe (Has that clinton "legacy" made you feel *safer* yet? ? ?)
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To: Nita Nupress
bttt
23 posted on 09/22/2001 10:50:49 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: Nita Nupress
Bump
26 posted on 09/22/2001 11:58:09 AM PDT by EternalHope
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To: Nita Nupress
Thanks for the information!
28 posted on 09/22/2001 1:43:42 PM PDT by Larousse2
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To: Nita Nupress
If some of the stuff described is so easy to do, how come it hasn't been done before?

It is being done now, it was done in the subways of Tokyo several years ago by Aum Shinryuko(sp?) and Saddam/Usama almost certainly have programs running. The most difficult part, and that nobody apparently has a solution for yet, is getting the agent into an aerosol solution so it can be easily sprayed. Just creating large amounts of the agent is simple, and a load of botulinum toxin, for instance, could be used to poison pretty much anything, from rivers to individuals.

How would terrorists go about creating and using these biological weapons?

1) In a hospital in Iraq, elite soldiers from Saddam's special weapons divisions would collect samples of diseased tissue suspected to contain the "right" diseases.

or 1) In a hospital in America, one of Usama's "sleepers," a doctor, would collect samples of diseased tissue, and would then smuggle it out of the country.

2) They would move these to secret labratories where they would separate out a colony of diseased cells, and then grow them en masse in vats full of agar or other growth media.

3) They would then remove everything but the harmful agent (bacteria or poison created by the bacteria)

4) Smuggle these into the US the same way drugs and illegals are smuggled in. With only one small capsule, packed with the agent, it would have a very good chance of making it into the country.

5) Once inside America, the agent would be expanded, possibly put in multiple containers, and set in aerosol or some other delivery mechanism

6) Set in crop duster with a banner trailing behind it, and fly over a packed football stadium. Or fly over the stadium before anyone arrives, and then let them sit in it. Who would notice a plane making a single pass near an empty stadium, high in the air and letting the wind carry the agent onto the seats?

Or: 6) release agent in a major airport, in the hopes the disease would be spread widely across America

Or: 6) release the agent in the Capitol building (or any of the congressional office buildings), killing hundreds of legislators and paralyzing the American government

These things can be carried out by pretty much any college graduate with a degree in biology, although a team, including a Ph.D. or two would not be impossible to obtain and would be much more likely to succeed. The methods of growing large amounts of biologial matter are no secret, they are exceedingly simple. The materials are for the most part easy to acquire, some could be had from culinary suppliers, all they would have to do is pretend to be interested in cooking and order them from catalogues straight to their homes. I don't know how hard agar is to make, but it's just made of seaweed (I think), it would not be hard to produce. The rest can be bought straight from dozens of scientific supply companies (of course, that would arouse suspicion, so they would not be able to buy them directly).

But what if a well-liked "sleeper" unit began teaching a high school biotech class? (there are such things) She wouldn't even "look like a terrorist," to the people out there who think hijabs and turbans are signs of support for Usama, because she would be like the terrorists who hijacked the planes. They attempted to fit in to our culture as much as possible to avoid scrutiny, as would she--she would wear NY Yankees baseball caps and pretend to be a "real New Yorker," and most people would buy it. Over the summer "oops" all of the materials disappear, smuggled over our southern border in a truck that won't be inspected. By the time school officials realize the material is missing, the teacher is long gone (she took a vacation at the start of summer, and didn't bother coming back), and the material is safely in the terrorists' labs.

Even curbing access to such equipment wouldn't be enough, because any engineer currently working for a biotech firm could pack his bags, move to Iraq, and start building similar machines for Saddam, although they wouldn't be as good as those built by scientific supply companies (and wouldn't come with warranties).

If they can successfully make biological weapons, they will use them, the idea of a doomsday weapon appeals too much to the fatalistic, apocalyptic terrorists. We have to stop them from making these weapons, we can't allow terrorists or terrorist states the privacy and security to develop these horrendous weapons. The UN weapons inspectors we had in Iraq were not enough, even when we had them. We need to keep these people on the run. If they have any permanent facilities, they could grow the agents. If they have any networks, they can attempt to smuggle the samples out and full containers into the US.


How much would you like to bet that somewhere in England, a Muslim terrorist (or any other kind of terrorist) has a vial of cow drool that might contain foot and mouth disease? Or has the sample already been smuggled out? (this particular disease wouldn't kill people, but could cause great harm to our livestock--we might have to all become vegetarians, a fate worse than death)

32 posted on 09/22/2001 6:31:22 PM PDT by xm177e2
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To: Nita Nupress
My opinion ... for what it's worth. I believe that our enemy ... whomever it truly is ... is evil to the extreme. BUT given the rumors of his intelligence ... he is evil but with a purpose / a plan. That means that there just might be a reason for he and his ... useful idiots .... to piss us off so bad that we would conjugate three or our 8 battle groups in one area. A place where 2-3 of your suicide ... paradise seeking fanatics can sail out in a very small boat with one / or more of those suitcase nuclear devices (why waste them on a city when an airliner will do) and just get a mile or so away from a battle group ... pull the pin .... and meet Allah .... along with the company of most members of that ill fated battle group.

What a glorious way to die ... and in the eyes of ol Bin Laden .... what a way to get your biggest ambitional obstacle out of the way. Folks .... us follow the logic .... pretend that our foe ... might just be the Anti-Christ, or a minion, or just the reincarnate of Hitler ... then consider that these recent event are probably purpose driven ... intellectually directed ... pure evil. Then ... consider that, in order for someone to direct, plan, and execute a deed so dispicable as to hope to kill 50k+ people at the WTC .... I would submit that this person has achieved the pinnacle ... the very acme and personification ... of evil.

My point .I think ... he .. may think .... that we believe we have him ... right where he wants us.

Bottomline ... we had better watch out for the trap ... cause given the logic .... there just might be one.

33 posted on 09/22/2001 6:57:28 PM PDT by clamper1797
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To: Nita Nupress
</marquee up></marquee up></marquee up></marquee up></marquee up> Bookmarked
50 posted on 09/22/2001 9:42:59 PM PDT by Mr_Magoo
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To: AtticusX
And here...
86 posted on 09/24/2001 7:16:20 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Nita Nupress
Anybody else remember all of those odd outbreaks of West Nile Fever in the NYC area over the past few years?

I remember wondering at the time if it was some sort of abortive bioterror attack. Now I'm really wondering.

I am not an epidemiologist by any means, but it seems rather a strange disease to suddenly appear on the East Coast- several times, IIRC. Is there any repository online of weird disease outbreak data nationwide over say, the last 10 years that we might have a gander at?

87 posted on 09/24/2001 7:35:54 AM PDT by Riley
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To: Nita Nupress
I operated and maintained a chemical and biological pulse generator for the US Army in a chemical warfare company for a number of my 6 years in the military service.

This type of warfare is so easy and inexpensive to do. Even a regular vehicle can easily be converted into a chemical/biological generator, but I won't give specifics.

90 posted on 09/24/2001 8:28:22 AM PDT by surferUSA
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To: Nita Nupress
The UN, FedGov, and the liberal left's agenda to keep as much of the country in wilderness, and the population herded into as little space as possible isn't helping this situation one bit. The effectivness of biological warfare probably increases geometrically with population density in a given area.
92 posted on 09/24/2001 8:57:19 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: Nita Nupress
If they use this shit then we should bomb mecca (no capitalization intentional).
96 posted on 09/24/2001 10:42:21 AM PDT by Robert Lomax
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