Whatever Happened To Repentance?

9/20/01 | David Wilkerson

[RnMomof7]

You're claiming you don't sin anymore???

Jude can you read? You are in collage and I expect a higher rate of literacy than you have just displayed..go back and read it again slowly...then I will ask you a question on your sin life

[jude24]

but that I can NOT sin

Thanks for clearing that up... (I shouldnt read so quickly).....

So you're claim is that you can choose not to sin? Okay, that seems a lot better.

[RnMomof7]

It seems that we are speaking different languages here, so help me out. Why would a "sinless" person need to be on their knees before God in such a repentant broken hearted manner seeking to turn away from the wicked ways in which he walks?

It is good to know that as a good Calvinist you have sex with every woman (or man) that attracts your attention,that when you see a possible way to cheat on your income tax you do..that you feel free to steal from your employer by cheating on your work hours..

Interesting that sin so rules you that you are incapable of resisting sin..

Hey but the elect can sin when they want to right?.Holiness is not a requirement ,is that what you are saying Woody? The grace of God is of no effect in your life?

Repentance is a mere formality...confess and turn back and do it again

My guess is lots of heathans would say Amen to your religion!

[southern rock]

I attended the Times Square Church once. The sermon was sound, but I didn't know quite what to make of the congregation. It seemed to consist of alot of overly enthusiasitc "overnight convert" type of Christians. You know, the type with glazed over looks in their eyes who were saved as recently as last week. The church also seems to aim it's recruiting efforts at young people, often of the pierced and purple mohawk variety. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

[RnMomof7]

So you're claim is that you can choose not to sin? Okay, that seems a lot better.

See I knew UB didnt have any dummies? *grin*..

We believe that when temptation confronts us the Grace of God allows us to refuse to sin (our choice here).. GEEEEEEEEE that seems like a hard concept to some..

We believe that the Holy Spirit is like a fire alarm..He rings bells to warn you..

The Grace of God can keep us,from sin,and convict us when we do sin..he brings us to repentance..and to our knees..

Now if you could explain this to Woody (who has had this explained to him many times)I would appreciate it!

[RnMomof7]

The church also seems to aim it's recruiting efforts at young people, often of the pierced and purple mohawk variety. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

Sounds like the crowd Jesus went after huh? The misfits,and sinners..UMMMMM Good thing the church has learned better *grin*

[sola gracia]

Thanks for the bump. Repentance is truly the "missing note" of modern preaching.

Repentance, like faith, is a gift of God. It is an acquiring of an attitude. Whenever you see the command to "repent" in scripture, it carries the meaning of a beginning and continuing. Repentance is never a "one time thing." So often we repent in the "emotion of the moment." That is not Biblical repentance but remorse. (usually, feeling sorry that we got caught) In an earlier post, George W stated that the heat seems to be off and many are turning back to their usual ways. God help us. If that is true, next time it will take more to get our attention.

May God give us the spirit of repentance. And may it begin in my heart.

Lately, I have been reminded of the words of Peter that judgement begins at the house of God. May His people humble themselve, call upon His Name, depart from their wicked ways and allow Him to heal our land.

Shalom friends.

[RnMomof7]

Lately, I have been reminded of the words of Peter that judgement begins at the house of God. May His people humble themselve, call upon His Name, depart from their wicked ways and allow Him to heal our land.

I believe you are right..If the church fails in this there is no hope

[the_doc]

It is good to know that as a good Calvinist you have sex with every woman (or man) that attracts your attention,that when you see a possible way to cheat on your income tax you do..that you feel free to steal from your employer by cheating on your work hours..

That was an utterly filthy misrepresentation of Calvinism. It is one of the reasons why I can't regard you as a Christian.

Maybe some of the other folks will continue giving you doctrinal pearls, but if you are going to behave like a swine, I won't. You deserve only a rebuke as a factious crank--i.e., a lying heretic--not a person who is interested in understanding sound doctrine.

[the_doc]

It is good to know that as a good Calvinist you have sex with every woman (or man) that attracts your attention,that when you see a possible way to cheat on your income tax you do..that you feel free to steal from your employer by cheating on your work hours..

That was an utterly filthy misrepresentation of Calvinism. It is one of the reasons why I can't regard you as a Christian.

Maybe some of the other folks will continue giving you doctrinal pearls, but if you are going to behave like a swine, I won't. You deserve only a rebuke as a factious crank--i.e., a lying heretic--not a person who is interested in understanding sound doctrine.

[drot]

Repentance, What an interesting word. Very simply it has the meaning of turning away. Being sorry for ones mistakes and sins. But closely coupled with it or more like it is the Phrase

Tempting God

What does that mean ? And even more important :"Do I do it ?

It is explained in

"Matt 4:5-7

• Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
  
  
  • And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
    
    • Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God

This temptation of Jesus was for OUR GOOD. But let us get a little more background on all of this. The Scripture's teach that Jesus was tempted on all points but without sin.

What are these points ?

If you will turn in your Bibles to I John 2:16 You will find these words

"For all that is in the world , the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

Now pair up these with the temptations of Christ

• 1. "The lust (desires) of the flesh." --- "He was hungry"
  
  
• 2. "The lust (desires) of the eyes" --- "Show Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them "
  
  
• 3. "The Pride of life" ---- "If you be the Son of God cast thyself down"

Just for something a little extra. "I said this was all for our benefit. Take a moment to look at Jesus answer to all three. "It is Written" He had all power, He could have spit and the devil would be no more. But He used Scripture. WHY ? Because He knew we would never have that kind of power. But we do have scripture. I would like to close this part of the post with a quote from the O.T. And it does apply Ps 119:11

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Now back to this business of Tempting God If a person truly confess one sins; The bible teaches God is "faithful and just" to forgive our sins" But what when one tries to take advantage of His Grace ? By confessing a sin and then going out and repeating that same sin again. Then too we have what John had to say about sinning. 1 John 1:6-7

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

John says confession may get you forgiven and cleansed but only a change in you walk (repentance)and direction will restore you to fellowship.

Jesus KNEW He could have jumped and been safe. But as he said "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" If He would have jumped just to test or show God protection He would have been doing just that. So the one who confesses and does not repent is tempting God to see if His forgiveness is still there. They might be so blinded that they don't realize that is what they are doing, But that does not change the serious of the matter. They have just admitted and confessed that it is wrong and to go out at some time do it again is TEMPTING GOD. And adding another sin to the list.

Think and pray about it that you may be lead by the Holy Ghost into all truth.

God bless

don 

[RnMomof7]

It is good to know that as a good Calvinist you have sex with every woman (or man) that attracts your attention,that when you see a possible way to cheat on your income tax you do..that you feel free to steal from your employer by cheating on your work hours.. That was an utterly filthy misrepresentation of Calvinism. It is one of the reasons why I can't regard you as a Christian. Maybe some of the other folks will continue giving you doctrinal pearls, but if you are going to behave like a swine, I won't. You deserve only a rebuke as a factious crank--i.e., a lying heretic--not a person who is interested in understanding sound doctrine.

That was not addressed to you.

It was a sharp and sarcastic response to Woody

Interesting that you are so sensitive to what I say. that I may choose to exaggerate a point to make a point..you and woody feel free to mis-state the doctrine of others to your advantage....

You should expect to get as good as you get..

Once again I will point out that was a sarcastic reply to Woodys hit on Nazarenes..hey doc if you guys cant take it dont dish it out!

[RnMomof7]

Sorry didnt mean to leave you all off the bump...didnt realize this was so serious that doc had to rally ALL his forces!

see post #72

[sheltonmac]

I understood what you meant in post #50. Certainly, a truly sinless person would have no need to repent. I believe that those in Christ can choose to NOT sin, but our human nature usually gets the better of us. Therefore, even God's children are in need of forgiveness on a daily basis. Even a fleeting thought can cause us to sin, and I have yet to meet a person who can completely shut out any thoughts from entering their mind.

[George W. Bush]

It is good to know that as a good Calvinist you have sex with every woman (or man) that attracts your attention,that when you see a possible way to cheat on your income tax you do..that you feel free to steal from your employer by cheating on your work hours.. Interesting that sin so rules you that you are incapable of resisting sin.. Hey but the elect can sin when they want to right?.Holiness is not a requirement ,is that what you are saying Woody? The grace of God is of no effect in your life? Woody never said this. No Calvinist ever says this.

On the other hand, we can produce a quote of you saying that you no longer sin. Now, in the interim, both you and Don, Holiness believers, say that your idea of sinless perfection is that you can be considered sinless between the times you have sinned and repented. This is actually no different than a Calvinist.

Unlike Don, however, you seem to make some distinction that any sin once repented and then repeated will damn you. Do you believe this? Will a second lie, having repented the first, damn a Nazarene? Will a second lust of the heart or covetousness, after repenting the first, damn a Nazarene?

This is what you imply over and over somehow distinguishes you from a Calvinist who you falsely claims uses his eternal security as a license to sin.

The Nazarene doctrine regarding sinlessness teaches that a second act of grace, undocumented in the Bible, is what gains a Nazarene the ability to sin once, repent and then never to repeat that sin. When you read Romans 7, do you think that Paul experienced what you are claiming any true Christian experienced, a power to resist all sins after repenting them only once? I don't think that that is what Paul was telling us.

The scripture teaches, as has been pointed out to you many times, that we can never be free of sin in this life. Wesley himself denied being sinless or sinlessly perfect as his own published letters to a London newspaper have proved. You know I cited him and posted his letter. So how can you be sinless when Wesley himself denied that he was and never made any such claim for anyone he knew? I don't think that in the end Wesley truly believed what you believe. I think he found it impossible to practice. I think he discovered that Whitefield and the Calvinists were right in at least this matter.

Which remark of Woody's or doc's actually set you off on these unfounded accusations again?

[George W. Bush]

I hate to criticize the sinless (of whatever variety) but I wish they'd close their tags.

[George W. Bush]

They have just admitted and confessed that it is wrong and to go out at some time do it again is TEMPTING GOD. And adding another sin to the list. Are you saying then that if you sin once, repent that sin, and then ever commit that sin that you are then apostate and damned?

That seems to be what you and RnMomof7 are claiming here.

Since being saved, have you lied twice? Have you had lust for another not your spouse twice? Have you committed any single sin in all of the Bible twice?

[Ted]

Thanks for posting this sermon. I believe this is the same David Wilkerson who wrote the book "The Cross and the Switchblade", a classic about inner city drug addicts who find release from their addiction through repentance/belief in Christ. He also started Teen Challenge, initially an outreach of the Assemblies of God.

I saw Lindale, TX at the bottom of some of the webpages. Brother Wilkerson had a camp there, used for various needs. I visited there in the late 70s, and got to play some music with the guys in Dallas Holm's group (Rise Again was one of his popular Christian songs). They were a wonderful group of people!

That sermon is a blessing, may all of us take it to heart. Amen.

[the_doc]

It was a sharp and sarcastic response to Woody

Your sharp and sarcastic response demands an apology. You have just gruatuitously insulted Calvinism.

Even the author of the article you posted would demand that you apologize.

As things stand, you are little more than a Pharisaic reproach to true Christianity. You mock a Christianity which you don't even begin to understand.

You don't know what motivated the English Puritans. They were very different from you. And you are so smug in your Wesleyan-Arminian nonsense that you think your smugness is wonderfully spiritual.

If you don't know what you are talking about, why do you continually pop off? It's because you aren't as sanctified as you think you are.

[Ted]

Allow me to correct one thing I posted, Brother Wilkerson started Teen Challenge on his own and then turned it over to the Assemblies of God. He is the same man I was thinking of, there's an about the Pastor page at the website of the Times Square Church.