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The "Pacifists" are coming out of the woodwork
campus bulletin boards ^ | 17 Sept 2001 | unknown juvenile twits

Posted on 09/17/2001 3:16:52 PM PDT by maxwell

Okay, my first question is-- WHO DO THEY THINK THEY'RE KIDDING?! Let me put this into context: this is the text of a flyer that's being posted around the campus where I attend graduate school:

WAR IS TERRORISM

Contact your Congressmen and speak out against unneeded and violent retaliation. The lives of foreign peoples [sic] and US soldiers will not bring back those lost in the recent tragedy in New York.
For more information about US foreign policy and the events that have taken place in the US and abroad, refer to the following websites:
www.indymedia.org
www.zmag.org
www.wtowatch.org
www.globalexchange.org
www.wto.org
www.protest.net
www.slashdot.org
Throughout the 20th Century violence and military might has been used to curb international terrorism. It hasn't worked. We need a new solution for a new century. Let's show that America has learned something from Vietnam, from Libya, from Iraq, from Israel, and Afghanistan.
Above all, don't listen to CNN and the major news networks. They say we are at war. They say that this is the new Pearl Harbor. Inform yourself. Terrorism is not new. Learn from the mistakes of the past.
Keep yourself informed and inform Congress in turn. The only way we can prevent needless violence is through active protest.
[emphasis mine]

I won't even address the appalling sentence structure and composition (and this is one of the better schools... sheesh...)-- that last line gets me. What, d'ya think suicidal religious fanatics are going to pay attention to a few flyers and some nude picketing?! The sheer assininity of kids these days floors me... Didn't bother to check out the links, but I speculate it's more of the same...

So my question to the rest of y'all is, how much anti-war rhetoric have you come across so far?


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To: maxwell
A student at the local community college here said patriotism there is running high, and many are ready to enlist, or to serve if drafted. That was very heartening.

On the other hand, I've heard a couple of Bush-bashing, putrid pacifist comments, but they were from known socialists, one of whom lives off the government. Of course I told them right off.

President Bush is not going to go by the polls. He's going to go by what is right.

61 posted on 09/17/2001 4:25:58 PM PDT by germanshepherd
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To: rmmcdaniell
Betcha they had someone standing watch while they drew it. Cowards like these deserve to have some patriotism kicked into them if theyre caught!
62 posted on 09/17/2001 4:27:10 PM PDT by Wondervixen
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Actually, the official position of the RCC is support for going to war. I watched Cardinal Egan [Archbishop of NYC] give an interview on fox before yesterdays Mass of Supplication, and he said that we will support a war because we must defend the innocent and to execute justice. Keep in mind you have a lot of liberal feminist nuns that don't actually speak for a lot of Catholics in this country. There are two seperate and distinct camps in my church; Cafeteria Catholics, whose religion is social liberalism...and staunch Roman Catholic conservatives...huge difference.
63 posted on 09/17/2001 4:31:31 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Growing up Catholic and a native New Yorker I often heard that it will always be safe to target Catholics in this country. The NYT lives by this credo. So do too many posters to this forum.

I witnessed the 1993 bombing. My wife and my two brothers witnessed this attack. My son survived ground zero. My son and I were back at the scene the next day, in the pit, digging with our hands. We went with my wife's blessing even though surrounding buildings were still considered too shaky to stand. The number of Irish, Italian and Puerto Rican in the NYFD and NYPD make up the overwhelming percentages of these services. They made up the bulk of the over 300 dead from these services. When we were working in the wreckage the majority of the VOLUNTEERS with us were from the construction trades. Most of these are also Catholic. My parish lost six members. Italian Catholics were the most represented ethnic group in service in WW2.

Catholic Americans have always and will always hold up our end and more in whatever our country asks of us. To go out of your way to focus on the forgiving words of a nun and a few un-named others betrays your own prejudice. A prejudice based on religion....sound familiar?

64 posted on 09/17/2001 4:33:12 PM PDT by wtc911
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To: maxwell
Dont give me that crap Maxwell, you're just too lazy to do it. It wasn't that long ago when I was in college and they are not all pantywaist liberal pussies. I'll guarantee I can go to my alma mater right now and the majority are ready to go whip some raghead ass.
65 posted on 09/17/2001 4:33:50 PM PDT by Intimidator
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To: machman
Turn em over to the drill sergeants right away...They WILL change their tunes...No "If's" or "Or's" about it! THEY WILL!
66 posted on 09/17/2001 4:34:25 PM PDT by Wondervixen
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To: JMJ333
Thank you so much for clarifying this. It didn't make sense, with our experiences in WWII and the reality of the inhumanity exemplified by these terrorists last Tuesday. I'm sorry that the young man who lost his friend didn't consult the good Cardinal. These nuns are sowing confusion and sorrow, IMHO.
67 posted on 09/17/2001 4:38:09 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: Hugin
Pacifism is EVIL and COWARDLY.

The Amish? The Mennonites? The Quakers? Dorothy Day? And what about the tradition of pacifism in the Christian churches over the centuries? A very good case can be made that the early Christians (before Constantine) were pacifists. Objection to violence on New Testament grounds is not the same thing as the smug posturing in the initial post, not even close.

68 posted on 09/17/2001 4:39:16 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: FITZ
Maybe the right should come out very quickly and say that since the Islamics did this to NY and NY is too liberal for us to defend, they are on their own. And tell them we'll give Hollywood to the Islamics too.

(Chuckle) I'll agree to Hollywood - but the New Yorkers have spunk. Their toughness during very painful, difficult times has impressed me...so I guess I'd stand by them. Even if they did elect the hildebeast.

69 posted on 09/17/2001 4:45:35 PM PDT by neutrino (Neutrino)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
You're welcome. :)

These nuns are sowing confusion and sorrow, IMHO.

You're absolutely correct. Not only that, they are trying to bring the church down from within with their push for gay rights and other garbage that they spew. I've been writing letters and trying to alert my congregation and diocese of these people. They need to be removed from their positions within the church. Now is the time for reform, and for rooting these people out.

70 posted on 09/17/2001 4:49:12 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: madprof98
You should read Ecclesiastes 3:1&8. After your read them, tell me which two of the four "times" mentioned in verse 8 best describes today.

Hint - It is good to hate evil and war against it.

71 posted on 09/17/2001 4:50:50 PM PDT by ASTM366
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To: JMJ333
At Mass last night, we were subjected to a sermon by our deacon, a great guy normally, but he went on ad finitum about choosing to do good out of the evil surrounding us, war is not the answer, turn the other cheek, yada yada yada. I was quite surprised by this since he was saying nothing about seeking justice, standing up to terrorism, etc. Then the priest added a few words at the end which were along the same line, i.e., love the enemy, pray for him, surround him with goodness.

I was so upset by this that I began crying after Communion. All those innocent people murdered and my church wants me/us to do nothing? I expected my priest to say something about how war is hell, some more innocent people may die but that is the price to be paid by the aggressors in this tragedy, but we must seek justice....instead it was all this mumbo jumbo pacifist stuff. And this is a conservative church in Scottsdale, Arizona, not exactly a hotbed of liberalism.

Well, I'm sorry, for once I do not agree with the position my church has (seemingly) taken on this. In my opinion, if we had followed this advice after Pearl Harbor, we'd all be speaking German or Japanese today!

72 posted on 09/17/2001 4:51:42 PM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: wtc911
My apologies and gratitude for your work on the rescue squads, I can't imagine how heartbreaking your task was knowing only how those of us far removed from NYC have suffered.

I am truly sorry for my insensitive comments. Many of us are finding our way back to the church and are simply seeking answers to difficult questions. I understand the nun's merciful forgiveness and commend her faith and courage, and know that Jesus commands us to do just this. Hence, my frustration and questions.

Thank you for being there on the front lines, and please accept my apologies. I have a deep respect for the Catholic church and spoke with a sincere desire to understand, not criticise.

73 posted on 09/17/2001 4:53:00 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: IrishRainy
I went to a town meeting on Sunday in Norwalk CT. Shays, Lieberman and AG Richard Blumenthal were there. The audience was a bunch of total pacifist non-realists. We're all human beings, they'd say (except not all of us think we'll go to paradise if we kill 5000 people).
74 posted on 09/17/2001 4:53:43 PM PDT by Koblenz
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To: maxwell
These anti-American, commie pinko subversive dirtbag lefty scum make me sick. We should round them up in a field and bomb the bastards.
75 posted on 09/17/2001 4:56:24 PM PDT by Clinton's a rapist
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Excerpts from:
Just War - Cathecism of the Catholic Church

Anger is a desire for revenge. "To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit," but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution "to correct vices and maintain justice." [St. Thomas Aquinas, ST II-II q158, a1 ad3]

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
- there must be serious prospects of success;
- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war. However, "as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed." [Cf. Vatican II, Guadium et spes 79, 4]

76 posted on 09/17/2001 4:59:01 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: IrishRainy
Again, your deacon and priest are not echoing the Vatican or the head diocese of America. They are blathering on with emotion and nothing else.

I think this is a good time to push for major reform within our Church. People like you and I should not sit idly by and let these liberal CINO'S speak on our behalf. We need to challenge them and spread the truth regarding justice and the protection of the innocent. Pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit.

77 posted on 09/17/2001 5:00:19 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: B Knotts
Thank you for reply #76. Bump for truth.
78 posted on 09/17/2001 5:02:11 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: FITZ
So Americans are only Americans if they agree with you on everything...you have no clue.

I worked with a guy from Alberta, Alabama in the pit at ground zero. He went under the rubble to look for bodies. He drove 1400 miles to help. What did you do when America was attacked?

btw did you know that the old Irish used fitz in front of a name to show the lack of a marriage between the parents?

79 posted on 09/17/2001 5:02:16 PM PDT by wtc911
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To: maxwell
We need a new solution for a new century.

We hear a lot of this type of rhetoric but not much in the way of details. I suspect the solution they have in mind is to have lots of protests and let people know they are opposed to terrorism. Yup, that oughta do it.

80 posted on 09/17/2001 5:02:39 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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