Posted on 09/15/2001 11:27:05 PM PDT by freedom_from_socialism
| From the Quran 2:120: “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: "Verily, Islâmic Guidance is the only Guidance. And if you were to follow their desires after what you have received of Knowledge, then you would have against Allâh neither any protector nor helper.” 3:56: “As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers." 3:85: “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” 3:118: “O you who believe! Take not as your helpers or friends those outside your religion since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the verses if you understand.” 3:178: “And let not the disbelievers think that Our postponing of their punishment is good for them. We postpone the punishment only so that they may increase in sinfulness. And for them is a disgracing torment.” 5:14: “And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection, and Allâh will inform them of what they used to do.” 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, they are but friends to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as friends, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the wrongdoers.” 5:73: “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no god but Allâh. And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.” 8:39: “And fight them until there is no more disbelief in Islam and the religion will all be for Allâh Alone...” 9:23: “O you who believe! Take not for supporters your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the wrong-doers.” 9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” 9:34: “O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the Jewish rabbis and the Christian monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder men from the Way of Allâh. And those who hoard up gold and silver, and spend it not in the Way of Allâh -- announce unto them a painful torment.” 9:123: “O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the pious.” Quran, 9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”. |
It's interesting that what sometimes are learned people store and forward
these memes without asking themselves the history of the mythos.
I'll study further, but I venture that it has to do with
tribal identity. Sort of like a favorite footbal team. Our
genes evolved with our memes, and vice versa. The statistical
computer generated by the genes had to repeat behavior libraries efficiently
and the memes stored had to allow the more genes expressing more effecient
memetic computing to survive. There are some pretty specific behaviors layed out in these
religious texts. These religious texts were more persistent than
the genes in that they tolerated little mutation. Being the
so called "Word Of Gawd" generally ensured little mutation word occur.
I'm sure rival memetic complexes that did not hav that in their genome
soon died from too many revisions.
Perhaps if we could get genetic material from different but isolated relious practitioners
that could be established as having practiced their specific religion
for many generations, we could perhaps find markers that lead to specific behavior.
Like a Jihad, or Crusade, or dressing funny.
Mark 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Matthew 24 14 And THIS gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and THEN shall the END (of this fallen world) come.
It's word phrasing you're talking about, right?
I've read treatises about this concerning the comparison of tradition folk music in Appalachia to music of Medieval England and how it is closer in word and music phrasing than what has survived in 2oth century England.
Am I close?
Instincts evolved into behavioral elements called "memes".
These memes are sequences of behavior integrating different
portions of our brains in order to recall that specific
behavior to a specific stimuli. Some of these behavior are weighted
heavily by specific "unlearned" training: instinct. Other require us to adapt
to unforseen or events short in duration. This requires higher
brain function. Communicating behavior perhaps without actually doing the
behavior was a huge advantage, and these behaviors had to
follow all the laws of information theory because of course
they themselves were information. Thus the door is open to study memes mathematically.
Islamic theology requires that any Muslim who turns from Isalm and Mohammed should be killed. Period. Moderate American Muslims need to clearly denouce this aspect to their religion. Otherwise, their religion is incompatible with the United States Constitution.
It was pulled because one or more of FR's current cadre of Islamic apologists hit the abuse button, and requested that it be pulled. Unfortunately, it would appear that a number of folks here have either slipped into full "appeasement" mode, or have gone completely PC, prefering not to see or know the truth about Islam.
In the meantime, since it appears that we will be fighting Moslems in this war, I would suggest it pays to know what they believe, and the level of fanaticism called for in their "holy writings."
Here's hoping your thread doesn't get pulled. More people need to know who our enemy is, and what he believes.
"What we saw and heard and touched is the material for nightmares, a human hell," reported an American Episcopal priest returning from a January 1998 trip to Sudan.
The country of Sudan, already enduring seemingly endless civil war, is being devastated by a jihad led by the militant Islamic regime in Khartoum. Their tactics include aerial bombardment of citizens, scorched earth and destruction of livestock, forced displacement of over three million people, abduction, imprisonment, torture, execution of men, abduction and enslavement of women and children, and forced Islamization and conscription. The government justifies its reign of terror and Sudan persecution by claiming that it is a "divine mission" in the name of Allah.
By their own admission, militant Muslims see Sudan persecution as only the first step in an attempt to impose their brand of radical Islam all the way to the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa.
Albania girl pays for her faith with her life
As she began studying God's Word last year, Zana Gjoni, a young Albanian girl, appealed to her Muslim friends and neighbors to commit their lives to God. She began a letter with Peter's words in Acts 3:19 - "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out...."
Zana was confident her own sins had been wiped clean when she accepted Christ as her Savior.
Zana eagerly learned more and more about Jesus, accepting Him as Lord and Savior of her life. Her once-dark life now shone brightly with God's love. But there were those around her who would not accept the change in her life, her love for the Lord. They threatened her - and on August 9, 2000, they raped and killed her.
Christians in Indonesia are fleeing for their lives as Muslim jihad warriors continue their latest plans to bring all Indonesia under Islamic "sharia" law. In Ambon, the terrorist group Laskar Jihad Ahluss Sunnah Wal Jamaah is now ready to pursue a Jihad mission in Poso, central Sulawesi. A banner on the web site of the Laskar Jihad (www.LaskarJihad.or.id) promotes violence and incites Muslims to join the ranks of the jihad to fight against the Christians in Poso, throughout Indonesia and beyond.
(July 25, 2001 Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) The government of Saudi Arabia appears to be launching a major sweep of Christians in the city of Jeddah. At 12:00 midnight Wednesday, July 25 five agents of the Ministry of Interior (MOI) once again raided another home of a Christian suspected of leading home meetings at which Christians gather for prayer and Bible study.
Eskinder Menghis, an Ethiopian working in Saudi Arabia, was awakened along with his wife and three children as MOI agents entered the family's home. The agents gathered up Bibles, books, family photos, video and audio tapes as they forced Eskinder to go to police headquarters for interrogation.
Eskinder's name was on a list containing several names and addresses of Christians living in Jeddah who were on a computer taken when MOI agents conducted a late night raid on the home of Prabhu Isaac a week ago today. He was subjected to psychological torture until the names of the Christian leaders of the home meetings were extracted from him. Prabhu is from India and has worked in a hospital in Jeddah for the past 17 years. He remains under arrest in the Farifia Prison. His wife has made a tearful appeal for help in getting her husband out of prison, but so far no government has been willing to intervene, including the United States.
Yep, a real "peace-loving" bunch, I'd say.
Safeena was raped and jailed after she refused to abandon her Christian faith
Her crime, the cause for all her trouble, is being a Christian in the Muslim nation of Pakistan. Her crime has brought scars, both to her body and to her mind, but they are scars she willingly wears because of something else she chooses to wear—the name of Christ.
Her given name is Safeena, and she is a 16-year-old in Pakistan. As a Christian, her opportunities for education and employment are limited. Christians in Pakistan are often only able to find jobs as street sweepers or brick kiln workers. Last year she was working as a household helper for a wealthy Muslim family, cooking and cleaning to earn money to help support her own family
Parvez Masih, Pakistani teacher falsely accused of Blasphemy
The Lahore High Court has denied bail for Pakistani teacher Parvez Masih. Masih is accused of violating sub-section C of Pakistan’s rigid Law 295, blasphemy against the prophet Mohammed.More than 200 Muslims poured into the courtroom of Justices Khalilur Rehman Ramday and Mian Saqib Nisar on Monday morning. Fifty Muslims present reportedly attended the bail hearing to testify on behalf of the defendant, Masih. One of them was Mohammed Yaqoob. When questioned by the court, Yaqoob admitted that he was not an Imam. Imams are Muslim religious leaders who often lead Islamic calls to prayer. The court remarked that it values the testimony of an Imam more than ordinary Muslims. Ruling that the testimony of Yaqoob was legally ineffective, the court then denied the bail request of the petitioner, Parvez Masih.
Parvez Masih was the headmaster of a successful Christian school in a village not far from the city of Lahore.
Pakistani Christian Ayub Masih has until August 24 to make a final appeal to Pakistan’s Supreme Court after the Multan High Court rejected his appeal last week. Ayub was sentenced to death by a judge in the Sahiwal district in 1998. He has been in prison since being charged with blasphemy in 1996.
Ayub was charged with blasphemy after reportedly making derogatory remarks about Mohammed. He has said that the charges came only after a property dispute in his village.
So if there are any "moderate Muslims" out there, why aren't they denouncing these attrocities and calling for their brothers to respect Koran?
Let's have no more talk of "moral equivalency" between Christianity and Islam.SAUDI ARABIA: Freedom of religion does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Islam is the official religion, and all citizens must be Muslims. The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh reports that both citizens and foreigners are targets of harassment by members of the Mutawwa'in and by religious vigilantes acting independently. Non-Muslim worshipers risk arrest, lashing, and deportation for engaging in any religious activity that attracts official attention.
IRAN: The Iranian constitution declares that Islam is the 'official religion' of Iran. The Government restricts freedom of religion for Christians. Official oppression of evangelical Christians increased in 1996. In July 1996, Shahram Sepehri-Fard, a Muslim convert to Christianity, was arrested on charges of having 'sensitive information.' He has been denied visitors since shortly after his arrest, and his condition is unknown. In late September 1996, another Muslim convert to evangelical Christianity, Pastor Mohammed Yussefi was found dead in a public park. He is widely believed to have been murdered by Iranian authorities. In January 1997, two Christian evangelists, Daniel Baumann and Stuart Timm, were arrested and detained under suspicion of espionage, a charge which is often levied against persons who proselytize in Iran.
SUDAN: Forced conversion to Islam of Christians, animists, and other non-Muslims takes place as part of government policy. The14-year-old civil war between the mainly Islamic north and the largely animist and Christian south has claimed more than a million lives. In war zones, government efforts to restrict religious freedom are particularly heavy-handed--churches are closed or permission to build them is denied, clergy are harassed, and members of indigenous faiths are persecuted. There are reports that many Christians are victims of slave raids and forced conversion, and that some Christian children have been forced into reeducation camps where they are given Arab names and raised as Muslims.
EGYPT: Egypt's constitution provides for freedom of belief and the practice of religious rites. However, Christians face discrimination based on tradition and some aspects of the law, and there have been instances of persecution of Christians in Egypt in recent years. In addition, Christians have been the target of terrorist groups seeking to overthrow the Government and establish an Islamic state, and terrorists have killed dozens of Christians, as well as hundreds of other citizens, in the past few years, despite government efforts to protect the population.
PAKISTAN: Pakistan's constitution establishes Islam as the state religion. Since 1986, Section 295(c) of the Penal Code has stipulated the death penalty for blaspheming the Prophet Mohammed. The Government permits Muslims to convert to other faiths, but proselytizing among Muslims is illegal. Islamic extremists have assaulted, raped, and even murdered members of religious minorities. In October 1996, 14 Christian families fled the Punjab village Number 35 Eb Arfiwala following the arrest of one member of their community for alleged blasphemy. In February 1997, Muslim mobs destroyed homes and churches belonging to Christians in the Khanewal area.
ETHIOPIA: Religious tensions between Christians and Muslims, particularly in certain regions (most notably the Oromiya and Somali regions) persist, and anti-Christian sentiment is sometimes fueled by historical perceptions of Christians as elite. According to reports from non-governmental organizations, tension at the local level between and among Christians and Muslims has led to incidents of harassment, intimidation, and in some cases, violence.
Lebanon: Syria's leader, Assad, is trying to de-Christianize Lebanon. When the Hizbollah (Islamic fundamentalists) need blood for their troops, they will go into a Christian community and drain blood from a child until he or she is dead.
Egypt: Both converts and ethnic Coptic Christians have their businesses looted, higher education denied, and churches are burned. Rape of Christian women is used to force Islamic conversion.
Saudi Arabia: Conversion to Christianity is a crime punishable by death.Pakistan: Under the blasphemy law, Christians are often fined, imprisioned or killed.
Sudan: Over one million people have died as a result of Sudan's Islamic government. Three million have been displaced whose villages have been burned or had property confiscated. Women and children are kidnapped and sold into slavery for as little as $15. Christian children are forced to go to brainwashing Islamic re-education camps.
Lebanon: Syria's leader, Assad, is trying to de-Christianize Lebanon. When the Hizbollah (Islamic fundamentalists) need blood for their troops, they will go into a Christian community and drain blood from a child until he or she is dead.
They're called "fundamentalists" because they follow the Koran!
What were our ancestors doing around 1400?
Around 1600, they were devoting a lot of energy to killing each other over theological questions ...
After 1700 or 1800, they moved on to killing people because of nationality, class, ideology, or race ...
Clearly Islam has serious faults, but it's not that our religions and culture lacked those flaws, but that we've changed them over the years to emphasize other features. One could find quotes in the Bible that express similar ideas.
Congratulations, you have successfully demonstrated that Islam shares the familiar features of monotheism with other Western religions.
Lebanon: Syria's leader, Assad, is trying to de-Christianize Lebanon. When the Hizbollah (Islamic fundamentalists) need blood for their troops, they will go into a Christian community and drain blood from a child until he or she is dead.
Let's have no more talk of "moral equivalency" between Christianity and Islam.
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