It's interesting that what sometimes are learned people store and forward
these memes without asking themselves the history of the mythos.
I'll study further, but I venture that it has to do with
tribal identity. Sort of like a favorite footbal team. Our
genes evolved with our memes, and vice versa. The statistical
computer generated by the genes had to repeat behavior libraries efficiently
and the memes stored had to allow the more genes expressing more effecient
memetic computing to survive. There are some pretty specific behaviors layed out in these
religious texts. These religious texts were more persistent than
the genes in that they tolerated little mutation. Being the
so called "Word Of Gawd" generally ensured little mutation word occur.
I'm sure rival memetic complexes that did not hav that in their genome
soon died from too many revisions.
Perhaps if we could get genetic material from different but isolated relious practitioners
that could be established as having practiced their specific religion
for many generations, we could perhaps find markers that lead to specific behavior.
Like a Jihad, or Crusade, or dressing funny.
Mark 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Matthew 24 14 And THIS gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and THEN shall the END (of this fallen world) come.
It was pulled because one or more of FR's current cadre of Islamic apologists hit the abuse button, and requested that it be pulled. Unfortunately, it would appear that a number of folks here have either slipped into full "appeasement" mode, or have gone completely PC, prefering not to see or know the truth about Islam.
In the meantime, since it appears that we will be fighting Moslems in this war, I would suggest it pays to know what they believe, and the level of fanaticism called for in their "holy writings."
Here's hoping your thread doesn't get pulled. More people need to know who our enemy is, and what he believes.
"What we saw and heard and touched is the material for nightmares, a human hell," reported an American Episcopal priest returning from a January 1998 trip to Sudan.
The country of Sudan, already enduring seemingly endless civil war, is being devastated by a jihad led by the militant Islamic regime in Khartoum. Their tactics include aerial bombardment of citizens, scorched earth and destruction of livestock, forced displacement of over three million people, abduction, imprisonment, torture, execution of men, abduction and enslavement of women and children, and forced Islamization and conscription. The government justifies its reign of terror and Sudan persecution by claiming that it is a "divine mission" in the name of Allah.
By their own admission, militant Muslims see Sudan persecution as only the first step in an attempt to impose their brand of radical Islam all the way to the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa.
Albania girl pays for her faith with her life
As she began studying God's Word last year, Zana Gjoni, a young Albanian girl, appealed to her Muslim friends and neighbors to commit their lives to God. She began a letter with Peter's words in Acts 3:19 - "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out...."
Zana was confident her own sins had been wiped clean when she accepted Christ as her Savior.
Zana eagerly learned more and more about Jesus, accepting Him as Lord and Savior of her life. Her once-dark life now shone brightly with God's love. But there were those around her who would not accept the change in her life, her love for the Lord. They threatened her - and on August 9, 2000, they raped and killed her.
Christians in Indonesia are fleeing for their lives as Muslim jihad warriors continue their latest plans to bring all Indonesia under Islamic "sharia" law. In Ambon, the terrorist group Laskar Jihad Ahluss Sunnah Wal Jamaah is now ready to pursue a Jihad mission in Poso, central Sulawesi. A banner on the web site of the Laskar Jihad (www.LaskarJihad.or.id) promotes violence and incites Muslims to join the ranks of the jihad to fight against the Christians in Poso, throughout Indonesia and beyond.
(July 25, 2001 Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) The government of Saudi Arabia appears to be launching a major sweep of Christians in the city of Jeddah. At 12:00 midnight Wednesday, July 25 five agents of the Ministry of Interior (MOI) once again raided another home of a Christian suspected of leading home meetings at which Christians gather for prayer and Bible study.
Eskinder Menghis, an Ethiopian working in Saudi Arabia, was awakened along with his wife and three children as MOI agents entered the family's home. The agents gathered up Bibles, books, family photos, video and audio tapes as they forced Eskinder to go to police headquarters for interrogation.
Eskinder's name was on a list containing several names and addresses of Christians living in Jeddah who were on a computer taken when MOI agents conducted a late night raid on the home of Prabhu Isaac a week ago today. He was subjected to psychological torture until the names of the Christian leaders of the home meetings were extracted from him. Prabhu is from India and has worked in a hospital in Jeddah for the past 17 years. He remains under arrest in the Farifia Prison. His wife has made a tearful appeal for help in getting her husband out of prison, but so far no government has been willing to intervene, including the United States.
Yep, a real "peace-loving" bunch, I'd say.
Safeena was raped and jailed after she refused to abandon her Christian faith
Her crime, the cause for all her trouble, is being a Christian in the Muslim nation of Pakistan. Her crime has brought scars, both to her body and to her mind, but they are scars she willingly wears because of something else she chooses to wear—the name of Christ.
Her given name is Safeena, and she is a 16-year-old in Pakistan. As a Christian, her opportunities for education and employment are limited. Christians in Pakistan are often only able to find jobs as street sweepers or brick kiln workers. Last year she was working as a household helper for a wealthy Muslim family, cooking and cleaning to earn money to help support her own family
Parvez Masih, Pakistani teacher falsely accused of Blasphemy
The Lahore High Court has denied bail for Pakistani teacher Parvez Masih. Masih is accused of violating sub-section C of Pakistan’s rigid Law 295, blasphemy against the prophet Mohammed.More than 200 Muslims poured into the courtroom of Justices Khalilur Rehman Ramday and Mian Saqib Nisar on Monday morning. Fifty Muslims present reportedly attended the bail hearing to testify on behalf of the defendant, Masih. One of them was Mohammed Yaqoob. When questioned by the court, Yaqoob admitted that he was not an Imam. Imams are Muslim religious leaders who often lead Islamic calls to prayer. The court remarked that it values the testimony of an Imam more than ordinary Muslims. Ruling that the testimony of Yaqoob was legally ineffective, the court then denied the bail request of the petitioner, Parvez Masih.
Parvez Masih was the headmaster of a successful Christian school in a village not far from the city of Lahore.
Pakistani Christian Ayub Masih has until August 24 to make a final appeal to Pakistan’s Supreme Court after the Multan High Court rejected his appeal last week. Ayub was sentenced to death by a judge in the Sahiwal district in 1998. He has been in prison since being charged with blasphemy in 1996.
Ayub was charged with blasphemy after reportedly making derogatory remarks about Mohammed. He has said that the charges came only after a property dispute in his village.
So if there are any "moderate Muslims" out there, why aren't they denouncing these attrocities and calling for their brothers to respect Koran?
Let's have no more talk of "moral equivalency" between Christianity and Islam.SAUDI ARABIA: Freedom of religion does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Islam is the official religion, and all citizens must be Muslims. The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh reports that both citizens and foreigners are targets of harassment by members of the Mutawwa'in and by religious vigilantes acting independently. Non-Muslim worshipers risk arrest, lashing, and deportation for engaging in any religious activity that attracts official attention.
IRAN: The Iranian constitution declares that Islam is the 'official religion' of Iran. The Government restricts freedom of religion for Christians. Official oppression of evangelical Christians increased in 1996. In July 1996, Shahram Sepehri-Fard, a Muslim convert to Christianity, was arrested on charges of having 'sensitive information.' He has been denied visitors since shortly after his arrest, and his condition is unknown. In late September 1996, another Muslim convert to evangelical Christianity, Pastor Mohammed Yussefi was found dead in a public park. He is widely believed to have been murdered by Iranian authorities. In January 1997, two Christian evangelists, Daniel Baumann and Stuart Timm, were arrested and detained under suspicion of espionage, a charge which is often levied against persons who proselytize in Iran.
SUDAN: Forced conversion to Islam of Christians, animists, and other non-Muslims takes place as part of government policy. The14-year-old civil war between the mainly Islamic north and the largely animist and Christian south has claimed more than a million lives. In war zones, government efforts to restrict religious freedom are particularly heavy-handed--churches are closed or permission to build them is denied, clergy are harassed, and members of indigenous faiths are persecuted. There are reports that many Christians are victims of slave raids and forced conversion, and that some Christian children have been forced into reeducation camps where they are given Arab names and raised as Muslims.
EGYPT: Egypt's constitution provides for freedom of belief and the practice of religious rites. However, Christians face discrimination based on tradition and some aspects of the law, and there have been instances of persecution of Christians in Egypt in recent years. In addition, Christians have been the target of terrorist groups seeking to overthrow the Government and establish an Islamic state, and terrorists have killed dozens of Christians, as well as hundreds of other citizens, in the past few years, despite government efforts to protect the population.
PAKISTAN: Pakistan's constitution establishes Islam as the state religion. Since 1986, Section 295(c) of the Penal Code has stipulated the death penalty for blaspheming the Prophet Mohammed. The Government permits Muslims to convert to other faiths, but proselytizing among Muslims is illegal. Islamic extremists have assaulted, raped, and even murdered members of religious minorities. In October 1996, 14 Christian families fled the Punjab village Number 35 Eb Arfiwala following the arrest of one member of their community for alleged blasphemy. In February 1997, Muslim mobs destroyed homes and churches belonging to Christians in the Khanewal area.
ETHIOPIA: Religious tensions between Christians and Muslims, particularly in certain regions (most notably the Oromiya and Somali regions) persist, and anti-Christian sentiment is sometimes fueled by historical perceptions of Christians as elite. According to reports from non-governmental organizations, tension at the local level between and among Christians and Muslims has led to incidents of harassment, intimidation, and in some cases, violence.
Lebanon: Syria's leader, Assad, is trying to de-Christianize Lebanon. When the Hizbollah (Islamic fundamentalists) need blood for their troops, they will go into a Christian community and drain blood from a child until he or she is dead.
Egypt: Both converts and ethnic Coptic Christians have their businesses looted, higher education denied, and churches are burned. Rape of Christian women is used to force Islamic conversion.
Saudi Arabia: Conversion to Christianity is a crime punishable by death.Pakistan: Under the blasphemy law, Christians are often fined, imprisioned or killed.
Sudan: Over one million people have died as a result of Sudan's Islamic government. Three million have been displaced whose villages have been burned or had property confiscated. Women and children are kidnapped and sold into slavery for as little as $15. Christian children are forced to go to brainwashing Islamic re-education camps.
The Qu'ran is not all evil, just as the Bible is not all evil because of certain verses.
To label all Muslims under your assertion is about the same as labeling all Catholics according to the Inquisition.
With your type of tripe it is no wonder that so many are misinformed and taking action against perfectly decent Muslim American citizens. jmo
This brands Islam as being very similar to Baal worship in a bygone era. The Moslem "Allah" is not able to defend himself. He must have the believers of Islam do his fighting for him - just as did Baal. Quite a bit different from the God of heaven who says, in effect, "Shutup, stand back, and SEE the salvation of the Lord!"
They do not want this reality known, so they want these threads pulled ASAP every time.
Well keep on posting them, and satan can go to hell.
I must admit that I am not a student of ISLAM, I am however a sincere follower of the PERSON of Jesus Christ.
The strenghth of ANY "religion" lies not within its teachings, BUT rather in the PEOPLE who claim to be its "FOUNDERS".
My hope is built on nothing less than JESUS CHRIST and HIS righteousness. Not of works that I have done, but on the FINSHED work of Christ, God's Only Son.
David C. Osborne (For U.S. Senate in 2004)
AKA/ SSG Osborne, U.S. Army Military Police, Bosnia
Go to ChannelNewsAsia and participate in the forum there. You'll see that even the Muslims who claim to denounce the attacks usually end up also denouncing America, trying to get us to "understand" (i.e. sympathize with) the terrorists, and denouncing the just elimination of the terrorists. So even many of the "moderates" end up effectively supporting the terrorists' agenda.
Freep ChannelNewsAsia "your say."
For later reading.
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The Muslim World http://www.safeplace.net/members/mer/MER_A022.HTM"DHIMMIS": THE PROTECTED MINORITY by Shirley W. Madany
It was in 1953, in the seaport city of Latakia, Syria that I gradually became aware of how it felt to belong to a minority. The Christians of Latakia came from families which had a long history of subjugation and humiliation. They had known suffering first hand. I had married a "dhimmi," the Arabic name given to a member of the "protected minority." This minority included Christians and Jews. (The word "dhimmi" is pronounced as if the "dh" was the "th" in this and that.) Oh, yes, Christians had certain defined privileges which allowed them to continue to worship in their own church buildings, and have ordained ministers and priests in the Eastern Orthodox churches. They were allowed to look after certain civil affairs in their own courts, etc. But they had grown up accepting restricted freedoms. They must keep their faith to themselves. Most importantly they should never try to share Christ,as Savior,with a Muslim friend. This was against the law. Survival meant compliance. Life was relatively okay if you minded your own business. Conversion was a one-way street for the Muslim. Anyone was welcome to convert to Islam but the reverse was considered a crime punishable by death under the Law of Apostasy. As a Christian brought up in Canada, my spirit rebelled against such laws. How could one even begin to be a Christian if you could not speak boldly about the faith within you? How could you obey God's commands if this was the law of the land? It was a contradiction. "If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9. Similar conditions were faced by Peter and John as they stood before the Jewish authorities. They were told not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, 'Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.'" Acts 4: 19,20 It is not difficult to see how this kind of "protection" would ultimately change the very personality of an entire group of people. "The dhimmi's consciousness--like that of the hostage--moves in a context of vulnerability which annuls the notion of rights and condemns him to exude gratitude for being tolerated. The dhimma is incompatible with the modern principles of inalienable and equal human rights." This quote is from an unusual new book, which has just come to our attention. THE DECLINE OF EASTERN CHRISTIANITY UNDER ISLAM: From Jihad to Dhimmitude, by Bat Ye'or, available in the USA from Associated University Presses, 440 Forsgate Drive, Cranbury, NJ 08512. It is to be hoped that these two words, both "dhimmi" and "dhimmitude" will become familiar to your ears, just as you have absorbed "jihad" and "shari'a" into your conscious vocabulary. This scholarly work, fully documented, was originally published in the French language and has just appeared in a beautiful English translation. The author spent many years producing a work which is focused on the effect which Islam has had upon the nations and peoples it has conquered. Another quote will give you an idea of the masterful way in which the author portrays more than one thousand years of history: "In the lands conquered by jihad (i.e., all the Muslim countries except Arabia), the Peoples of the Book formed majorities, among whom the Arabs of the first wave of Islamization and the Turks of the second wave were in the minority. Presumably the complex and little-known process that transformed those majorities into minorities covered some three or four centuries for each wave of Islamization. By contracting it, the expression 'religious minorities' reverses a chronological process that had spread over centuries, whose result --- the minority condition --- is taken as its starting point." The discovery of such a book as THE DECLINE OF EASTERN CHRISTIANITY UNDER ISLAM: from Jihad to Dhimmitude, is almost akin to stumbling into a field strewn with precious gems. At a later date we shall hope to go into more detail about the contents of this book. For the moment it is enough to merely open up some of the subjects which it raises. As the author concluded, "dhimmitude" is a "historical, political, social and geographical fact." And she makes a point to single out that the Islamization of so many nations could not have taken place without the simultaneous working of two factors: "a conquering militarist minority" and the betrayals and active cooperation of ambitious renegades. From time to time one is amazed to hear of some atrocious denial of the historicity of the Holocaust. With that in mind consider a quote from a recently published book by the World Council of Churches in Geneva, Switzerland, entitled RELIGION, LAW AND SOCIETY: A Christian-Muslim Discussion. One of the Muslim speakers, Dr. Walid Saif of the University of Jordan, had the nerve to make this comment: "To my mind, even to discuss the subject under the label of 'rights of non-Muslims' is misleading and probably counterproductive, because it may imply that non-Muslims' in an Islamic state are signaled out as being a special category with a somehow different status." How many Christians on tour in the Holy Land and Egypt have discovered first hand the difficulties faced by the Egyptian Christian when he wants to make some repairs to his church building and finds he does not have permission for the most needy of improvements! Live in a Christian community in any Muslim country and see how misleading are Dr. Saif's comments . In the early days of their conquest, which the Arabs euphemistically called a "liberation," conversion to Islam was the only sure way to escape the humiliation, and the unjust taxation forced upon them by the application of shari'a law. Later on during the Ottoman occupation of Eastern Europe, the Christian population of these areas, experienced the ruthless snatching of their sons for lifetime service in that special army called the "janissaries." As the author of the book puts it: "Young Christian children abducted during "razzias"(raids), allocated within the quint of war booty, or by the "devshirme" (recruiting of Christian children), were reduced to slavery and converted to Islam. Subjected to an intense military and religious education, they constituted the Muslim power's elite troops. Blind and fanatical tools of the sultan, they became the cruelest persecutors of Christians. The janissary incarnates the quintessence of dhimmitude, brought to its perfection." The early missionaries to the Middle East were under no delusions about the debilitating effects of 400 years of Ottoman oppression. What a pity then that some missionaries in recent times, who have gone out filled with zeal to initiate some new way to open up this difficult field, have been ill equipped because of their own inadequate grasp of the long, long history of the lands to which they were going. Hence they pronounced Eastern Christians as being "stumbling blocks" to their work. They had no sympathy with these Christians who have suffered so much. They could not see that the Eastern Christian lacked the benefits of the Reformation and the true freedom of expression which the Western world has enjoyed, as a fruit of Christianity. Considering the increasing Islamic presence in the Western world, Christians need to learn some basic facts about the Islamic conquest that went on for centuries and to grasp what "dhimmitude" means. We have both a great opportunity and a challenge to present the Good News to many Muslim people who have come to live among us as economic migrants. Perhaps they can see how our Western culture (often regarded by them as Christian) allows them to have complete freedom of worship and expression. They find no obstacles in their way as they engage in da'wah missions, boldly proclaiming Islam as God's perfect religion. Is it then too much to hope that in our atmosphere of freedom we may expect some Muslims to acknowledge this dark part of their history? While the past cannot be erased, yet recognizing the terrible nature of "dhimmitude" should be the basis for building a genuine peaceful co-existence between peoples and nations in a world filled with six billion people. To ignore the past is a sure recipe for repeating its injustices and perpetuating oppressive conditions for minorities who, a millennium ago, were actually the majority in their homelands. Return to list of Articles Return to Middle East Resources home page
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All about dhimmis in the Arab world
II Th 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Rev 13:11-16
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(KJV)
I know that many expect microchip implants and other high-tech devices but what about some low-tech possibilities? How about these verses from the Quran:
48:29
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.
27:78-83
78 Lo! thy Lord will judge between them of His wisdom, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
79 Therefor (O Muhammad) put thy trust in Allah, for thou (standest) on the plain Truth.
80 Lo! thou canst not make the dead to hear, nor canst thou make the deaf to hear the call when they have turned to flee;
81 Nor canst thou lead the blind out of their error. Thou canst make none to hear, save those who believe Our revelations and who have surrendered.
82 And when the word is fulfilled concerning them, We shall bring forth a beast of the earth to speak unto them because mankind had not faith in Our
revelations.
83 And (remind them of) the Day when We shall gather out of every nation a host of those who denied Our revelations, and they will be set in array;
8:11-14
11 When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take
away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.
12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
13 This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Messenger; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Messenger-- then surely Allah is severe
in requiting (evil).
14 This-- taste it, and (know) that for the unbelievers is the chastisement of fire.
And he was smiling the whole time too...