[E. Pluribus Unum]

[patlaw_guy]

Ah, yes, National Review, home of the R-flavor War Party for 20+ years! Keep cranking out those editorials equating rational analysis of our foreign policy with "surrender". Maybe some of the sheeple will actually believe it.

[Myrnick]

oderint dum metuant

Can anyone help me here? "__________ while fearful."

[dighton]

Bump for a good post.

[livius]

Thanks, Fury. The odd thing is that liberals and paleos seem to agree on the isolationist thing. All day I've been hearing whining liberal voices saying, "but, oh, you can see why the poor things are justified in being so mad at the big mean nasty US." No, I can't see why they're justified in any way. What I see are a bunch of crazed Islamic fundamentalists who see us as the symbolic and real leader of a way of life that is diametrically opposed to theirs, and will do anything to strike at us. By our very existence, in many ways, we must be an Empire; there's no way for freedom to be a local option. An isolationist Republic would last about 15 minutes against the big totalitarian-filled world.

[BurkeanCyclist]

Before we loose the word
  That bids new worlds to birth,
Needs must we loosen first the sword
  Of Justice upon earth;
Or else all else is vain
  Since life on earth began,
And the spent world sinks back again
  Hopeless of God and Man.

Rudyard Kipling, "Justice," 1918

[MadIvan]

There is an inherent tension between the type of system that America represents and the type of system that the Islamic terrorists want. If only because of America's cultural influence, there is bound to be conflict on some level, and likely one involving actual warfare.

What keeps the enemy at bay is an image of strength and a willingness to project that strength. Few bastards tried it on with Reagan or Thatcher because they knew the punishment would be swift and severe.

Finally, to say the USA has global interests is not to say that America is less of a Republic or becoming an Empire. It is a reality. America exports to the world (as much as the Patsies hate it) and imports much of its energy supplies. Neither America nor Britain have any interest in letting the 3rd World spiral out of control because when it does occur, that problem has a bad habit of arriving on our doorstep in the form of refugees.

The Paleos are much like the Socialists in naively wishing for the world to be something other than what it is. It is only dangerous if this naivety becomes policy.

Regards, Ivan

[William Terrell]

Great wealth and great success generate great envy and great hatred.

Some very few, I imagine, but a great many when combined with arrogance, as the Jewish people have yet to learn.

I wonder if he has heard this argument? Governments, the administrators thereof who are the one that persue hegemony, are temporary creatures, much like a squash plant which sprouts rapidly, matures rapidly and decomposes rapidly. The more people caught in the hegemonism when the "empire" collapses the worse the world situation is.

[Zviadist]

Mr. President, these are not traffic violations; these are acts of war. Justice must go by the board for a while, as it did when we firebombed German and Japanese cities, incinerating helpless babies and old folk who wished us no harm. Where was the justice in that?

This scumbag is urging the president to incinerate innocents: "justice must go by the board for a while." This bastard is NO better than the terrorists themselves. That National Review published this hateful piece says much about them all: they are a hell of a lot closer to the terrorists who bombed us than they are to average America. To hell with these pigs!

We are America, we believe in justice and the rule of law. Should we let terrorists goad us into acting like terrorists ourselves? Wouldn't that be their most evil victory over us?

[Zviadist]

E-mail the author.

Send a letter to national review

[The Raven]

The list of US positives are always left out and is a very, very long list. Starting with our form of government, freedom and ending on page 2 or 3 with - America almost single handedly won WWII. We provide the world with aid and state of the art medicine and meds. , etc, etc

[x]

Derbyshire's a little to quick to embrace empire. It would be better to recognize the inevitable failings and vices of empire. I'd say, disengage where you can, where it's possible and wise, but don't think you can isolate yourself from the rest of the world. Policy debates will go on, and should.

But the Republic vs. Empire framework seems naive and outdated. We were an embryonic empire when we expanded to the Mississippi, the Caribbean, the Rockies, the Rio Grande, the Pacific and beyond. When we developed the world's biggest and richest economy, we became involved with the rest of the world, even if we didn't want to. Whatever we wanted, we would be dragged into the world's affairs, as we were in 1941, or we would find it impossible to stay out, as we did on other occasions. If it is Bin Laden behind this, it wasn't primarily our vices or abuses that got us into this, but our virtues: we armed the Afghanis to fight against the Soviets.

So the debate goes on about where we should be involved, but we might recognize that we can't go back to Jefferson's day. A lot has changed over two centuries. Also, we probably shouldn't think of Jefferson and the founders as wholly without imperial tendencies of their own. The alternative of reverting to city-states or independent provinces or regions, which seems to be the real agenda of some paleos, was rejected by the founders. It doesn't seem suited to bring about greater peace or security today either. Remember that peaceful, commercial, pacifist Europe has been troubled by terrorism longer than we have.

[St.Chuck]

Good Post. Good thread. The "paleos" don't seem as vitriolic as the "neo-cons." If you see a "paleo" post the response has been pretty rude. If you criticize our policy with Israel you are called anti-semite. If you express a cause and effect relationship with regard to our mideast policy and hatred of the U.S. you are called traitor. The "paleo's" at least are more well-mannered and reasoned.

One thing the author of the article should know, is that the price of empire is terrorism. They go hand and hand as history shows. If American leadership continues with it's past and present policies , then attacks against its interests and citizens are inevitable.