Posted on 09/11/2001 4:07:58 PM PDT by Illbay
Just above the text box into which I'm typing, it says, and I quote, "NO racist or violence posts."
Ladies and Gentlemen, FReepers of every race, CREED and color, I urge an immediate moratorium on the nauseatingly bigoted comments directed against "Islam," or "Muslims," or any negative reference to anyone strictly because of his or her religion. FR is no place for this trash, and I'd like to publicly call on the Esteemed Moderators to hunt down and erase all such tripe from FR.
Well, I did for 22 years and I am still eligible for recall if the situation warrants. I will gladly pull the trigger.
Unless the Moslem community in the US stands up for the US and condemns, over and over and over and over again, ALL Islamnic extremists, they SHOULD be considered as terrorist sympathisers.
Nevertheless the enemy, unwitting or not, guilty or not, has to be destroyed, because enemity is irrelevant to guilt, good or bad, it is a status of identification of a destructor. If your good neighbor has ebola and comes to your gate for medicine, as much as you love your neighbor, he's got Ebola and you got to shoot him or her in order not to get sick. Same thing with ISlam, as good as Islam is, we got to destroy the culture as it stands today terrorising its people within and outside its border as it terrifyingly does not tolerate thought.
Americans do not know the mentality in today's ISlam and the middle East. It's called the Ramah mentality according to the destruction of the city of Ramah by Assad in Syria. It's the tribal mentality that detects any weakness of combat in its enemy and views it as an open door for conquest. When Assad was being harrassed by the people of Ramah, he made the point that he would not stand a single perception of weakness from others. As a result he turned the city into a parking lot for a shopping mall, people burried under the tarmak.
By listening to their speeches and believing their dribble that Islam means peace to us, they perceive a basic weakness in the US psyche. For Islam, that means open door to destruction and continued war on American soil. No physical border is safe since they do not perceive a mental border and stubborness within ourselves.
Some people need to go to the Middle East and try to set up missions and churches and learn the truth the hard way.
Pre-WWII, their civilization was xenophobic, militant, and essentially toxic to the rest of the world. They invented the suicide bomber (kamikaze). They worshipped their emperor.
We tore all of that down and reconstructed their society in our own image.
Racist?
Nope.
Culturalist.
Get it?
Cliche' alert: One Of My Best Friends is an Arab. He's an American of Arab extraction. (I'm not gonna burden him with a hyphen.)
We worked together -- he was a customer who became an employee at my store, and after the store folded, he remained a friend for the past two decades. I introduced him to the woman he married. We've shared good times and bad times. When I went through a painful divorce, he was there to talk with, to sit at the restaurant and drink coffee with, to go fishing with, and so forth.
He is not a talibanner. He is not looking to destroy me or my country. My country is his country.
"Race" hasn't a damned thing to do with it, pal. It's about culture.
Or lack thereof.
Your accusing Illbay of being an atheist???????
Or maybe you don't know what your talking about in that Islam considers infidels to be atheists/agnostics while it considers Christians and Jews to be "people of the book" meaning they are on a same footing.
Some of you all need to take a world religions history class or a comparitive religions class for a little bit more of an understanding of what your talking about.
I don't know if your familiar with elohim city, it's a little city made up of white supremacist Christians on the border of OK/AR who think that, according to the way they read the bible, that its all right to perpetuate their radical beliefs. Some of you may have heard of them in relation to timothy mcveigh (some claim he was an atheist, I say he wasn't based on his few beliefs he revealed and people he stayed in contact with, but irregardless he traveled with and was helped by Christian zealots). A group within them wanted to blow up the federal building, and when in fact he decided he was going to, he planned on taking refuguee there.
I don't know about you, but when all this came out during the trial, all of his links with this racist christian underground group, I didn't see people going around labeling us as potential terrorists that should be wiped off the face of the earth. For us to do that to Moslems would not only be hypocrital, but judgemental of their souls, which is the realm of the Lord, and I doubt he'd be too pleased for us to start doing that.
>Your right...and my emotions run amok...but what the hell are we gonna do...you tell me...I apologize for such blanket dispersions
What are we going to do? Punish the guilty. I don't see why this doesn't make any sense. People on here bitch whenever anti-gun fanatics try to label every gun-owner a potential criminal just waiting for the chance, but when it comes to religion, people think it's okay to label every memeber of a religion a potential criminal.
If we can criticize our own country and our own religious leaders when we think constructive criticism is necessary, why are Islamic terrorists and radicals off limits?
Moslems aren't all evil, only a minority, just like people in communist countries aren't evil, only a minority, but guess what? the minority is often in power and it's bent on destroying us. Don't be naive.
People need to understand that we are at war and that we demand total loyalty from our countrymen.
Leading up to WWII, Americans of German descent were the largest ethnic group in the country. They generally opposed Hitler and fascism, but they also didn't want to go to war.
All of that opposition vanished the moment we entered the war effort on the Allied side. Those people made no apologies for Hitler. They did not equivocate. They didn't cry "racism." They just did their duty as Americans, enlisting to fight or in the case of the women staying behind and raising American children.
Arabs living in this country must do the same. If they are Americans, first and forever, then they are my brothers. If they separate themselves, give comfort to our enemies, or identify in any way with the attackers, then I say they were never Americans at all.
Nope, not in the least.
They didn't bother to include the penalty part of the decree. Get with Salman Rushdie for clarification is you need help grasping the concept.
Response: Have no fear. The American people-at least by their public statements, may have reached that glorious phase;" there comes a time in the history of every people when they become so pathologically soft and tender that they actually side with those elements of their society which seeks to harm them."
Comment: If I remember correctly when Timor The Lame came to Baghdad the inhabitants came out waiving palm fronds and giving expressions of peace and love. He made a mountain of their skulls. We may be in this state. Actually physically incapable.Time will tell.
>We Americans are better than that. We punish the guilty. Not those who have the same religion as the guilty.
Or David Koresh for that matter. Granted the federal gov't was wrong in how it handled the matter, but that doesn't excuse his use of Christianity to allow pedophilia among other things.
For that matter, after all was said and done, I did not see a call to round up Christians or even cults of Christianity.
I actually look at bin laden's group as a moslem version of a cult of Christianity (if you don't know what a cult of Christianity is, it's basically a group of Christians that does not believe in/teach one or more of the central doctrines of Christianity)
About as bad as things got after the Branch Davidian frootloops had their day in the sun? Or Randy Weaver?
The "Christian extremists" destroyed one building and 168 innocent lives. An unspeakable horror, no question about it.
Now contrast that with the atrocities committed by the islamic extremists.
PS: since this is a free country, the Christian extremists never had any problem getting hold of "recruits and arms," so I can't quite figure out why you seem to think they're somehow prevented from doing so.
Frankly, I'd rather have to deal with a hundred Christian extremists than a half dozen islamic extremists. Christian extremists may be paranoid, but there's a decent chance that you can reason with them, and get them to re-enter the mainstream. The same cannot be said for radical islamics.
He demonized the Jews after they murdered tens of thousands of innocent civilians by flying airliners into office buidings?
Grow a brain, agitpropboy.
How many Americans of Japanese descent lost their lives defending our shores against Japanese imperialism? Do you think they were ignorant and didn't know what they were risking their lives for? How many Americans of Arab descent did we lose in the bombings this week, or in our armed forces this century? Don't disgrace their sacrifice. My grandpa was an Arab, born in a Syrian Moslem family. He became an American. He didn't fight in WWII, but he lost one brother in law in WWI and one in WWII (not Arabs, my grandma, his wife, wasn't Arab), but if he were alive, he'd be identifying the evil at work here, and it IS radical Islam. It's not right for people to criticize all Arabs, it hurts my feelings even though I'm only 1/4 Arab, but we're not little babies and this isn't a playground, and these are perilous times. I'd get my feelings hurt anyday, I'd rather get called every name in the book, than have the truth muzzled by the PC crowd and more innocent blood gets spilled.
That's low IMO, but you do realise that 1% of 1.2 billion is 12,000,000! The other 99% go from hate, dislike, tolerate and maybe 1% are taught to love love thy neighbor.
Explain, please, how you are better than they
God will decide that. What I would say is that I and most Americans have been brought up to value all life. It's my opinion the Koran does not teach this. Its due for a rewrite, and when you can accept this, then some progress can made sans bombs.
You are my American sister, and I would gladly fight side by side with you against anyone who stands against us.
Very good point, we are going to have to deal with the radical Islamics in a very harsh manner (and I wonder if today's youth is upto that task, although many pointed out that many of the firefighters and police officers killed were in their 20's). Christian extremists can be reasoned with to an extent - after the OKC bombing, many of them left their movements after they realized the mistakes they have made. The ones that are left, well nobody has heard about them so they must be very far underground. I don't see the same thing with Islamic radicals (there'll probably be some that try).
People think that Moslems are this one big happy bunch of people who hate everybody else, yet they conveniently ignore the Iran/Iraq war (which saw the use of chemical weapons), they ignore the Afghanistan civil war (which is still going on), they ignore the various sects fighting in Lebanon.
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