France intercepts suspected Russia-linked oil tanker off the coast of Sicily

There is no declaration of war.

These ships are in international waters.

These ships are no war ships and pose no risk to the UK or France (does not really matter if in international waters)?

The products on these vessels gets commandeered and sold by France and the UK!

These ship are not under the flag of France or the UK.

***Other than some feeling of omnipotence (when under a flag its OK: create some rules to pretend there is a distinction even though the purpose, targets and methods are the same), what separates these sort of actions from common piracy?***

Where is the difference between what France and the UK are doing today with what was done 400 years ago with the privateers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer)?

France can commandeer oil tankers but can’t (or rather, won’t) repatriate the Enemy Within Islamicist pro-terrorist element within its own borders.

France also would not help USA with the Iranian threat or Gulf or Hormuz international sea lane

Charles Martel is spinning in his grave and

France is a lost cause under its current regime

"Thanks for the oil. But why is the rum gone?"

> in breach of the law of the sea <

Macron is evidently accusing the ship of changing flags. Is punishing such a “crime” worth risking an international incident?

Or maybe Macron is just trying to distract the French public from all the horrible things going on in his own country.

Last I heard, when the UK boarded that ship, the crew had already been cleared out.

It was Kabuki theater.

Bet this one is, too.

Per AI...

“France remains one of the largest buyers of Russian Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) in Europe. Despite the EU’s pledge to phase out all Russian fossil fuel imports by 2027, France has continued to import hundreds of millions of euros worth of Russian LNG monthly, largely driven by long-term corporate supply contracts.”

~10% of the population of France is Muslim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

They are very organized.

They are concentrated in certain areas - feeds into the first bullet.

They are a single issue block politically - feeds in the first two bullets.

They are willing to shut down the country economically or even light the streets on fire if you go against their religious interests.

France takes into consideration every move they make at this point. They need to worry about what happens when they piss these people off.

The real reason France passed laws regards public prayer (some saw this as an attack on Christianity) is because the Muslims, to show their power (flexing), conducted street prayers in the past. These were intentionally done in key places to shut down traffic. The idea: “you will listen to us.” France can’t just target the Muslims with some law as with the Burka ban which really pissed a lot of Muslims off and is ignored in many areas where Muslims have a strong presence.

IMHO, even in 2003 when we went to war in Iraq, their own Muslim population and the internal problems it would cause if France joins our efforts were a consideration. Another example, Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings (Spain immediately tried to lie and blame ETA but then withdrew from Iraq): https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/spanish-soldiers-withdrawal-support-contingent-conapre-on-8021789a

Many of these nations with very high Muslim populations have to take “internal stability and security” into serious account as they address their foreign and security posture. They won’t come out and outright state this, but that is the reality.

—

It’s all about demographics.

The only hope Europe has is the rise of their right wing.

There is a lot of discontent at the grass roots level spanning many Euro nations. The common man on the street is not happy with the status quo / direction, but the powers to be have no real interest in a change of direction and so far been able to effectively suppress this “popular political uprising” by marginalizing them in government and the MSM (in Europe you have a huge government media footprint), and using the intel and law enforcement functions to essentially suppress them.

One can only hope that this alt right in Europe which is on the rise does not morph into a dysfunctional mess, or some scary national socialist flavor of the past.

France is more threatening to the USA and what remains of W. civilization than Russia. How long is Rusdia going to put up with acts of war like this?

People will laugh, but YES!

The enemy within is far more dangerous.

France works against NATO seeing this as an obstacle for them having more influence in Europe through national security matters. France having some force projection capabilities, a nuclear power, hopes that through NATOs decline they can fill the void and increase their influence. Good luck with that! LOL

France, a former colonial power which still has many of these interests, a huge internal Muslim population, cannot be counted on for much.

Even in 1986 they denied over flight of our F111’s on their way to bomb Libya: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1986/04/16/france-barred-overflights/52c4cb0d-8c26-4434-8e8e-238382a74e6a/ For them it was a fragile peace deal they had worked out with Qaddafi regards Chad.

But it gets worse! Since all embassies and consulates are monitored by intel services, when the French evacuated their embassy in Tripoli, Libya having bad relations with us, immediately knew something was coming their way. We would have likely killed Qaddafi in 1986 had it not been for them turds: https://media.defense.gov/2012/Aug/23/2001330097/-1/-1/0/Op%20El%20Dorado%20Canyon.pdf

With the Euro’s, you ALWAYS have someone in one country or another playing games in order to self promote.

In 2003 the Germans had Schroeder/Fischer that used this impending war in the nastiest and most obscene way to sell themselves as “sovereign, peacemakers, and intellectual,” in the elections of 2002. They surely did not want to talk about inflation, unemployment, crime rates, shortages in housing... Germany at that time was suffering in a horrible way in part still from their unification. So, they made Iraq and opposition to this war the cornerstone of their campaign.

Recently we saw the same exact thing as 2002 in Germany play out in the UK where K. Starmer attempted to exploit the Iran war for his national political advantage. How sad: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/A0Jyxdhq06I (sarc) These guys always become great husbands and fathers once they get cut from the team. LOL In his case it didn’t work.

Spain and Iraq 2004. Once AQ attacked the Madrid main train station, Spain’s leadership in the most cowardly fashion blamed ETA first, but knowing the truth immediately withdraw from Iraq: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4522638 What is amazing, is how these weaklings try to sell themselves as tough guys by standing up to us, but not someone that wants to cut their frigging head off.

From our perspective, we have an ally that is NEVER carrying their own weight and NEVER entirely behind us. We always have this sort of some will join us, other won’t scenario, even if they all suck on the same teat and DEMAND our help when they need it, see Germany with Serbia in the 90s. Of course when they call on us, there is the (((EXPECTATION))) that we always rise to the occasion.

I can’t blame our administration from putting on this hat: https://www.amazon.com/Middle-Finger-Baseball-Ponytail-Trucker/dp/B0CGYZ1W6J?th=1&psc=1

The only counter argument: “we’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater.” Many Euro nations do help (different ones on different occasions). Some did contribute the NATO contractual minimum even before Ukraine. Trashing everything seems to be more of an emotional response out of frustration than what is pragmatic and long term beneficial. NATO has benefited us also even if they do not carry their own full weight. I suppose the argument becomes, “something is better than nothing.” The counter to that is, and I made that before, if we disengage and force them to stand on their own feet, they will out of necessity do what we have asked them to do for many years anyhow. Now it’s just them no longer being able to hide behind us, all while talking shit about us at the same time. Cut them lose, and they are (((FORCED))) to do what what we have asked them to do and they shrunk away from (why spend the money or get a bloody nose if you have someone else doing it for you?).

Don’t forget to also indicate that...

Any Russian oil in any tanker, represents funding for Russia to continue to conduct the war Putin launched into a free and independent country. That funding is fair game for any country which joined the sanctioning of Russian oil and other goods which could assist Russia with its war.

France is more threatening to the USA and what remains of W. civilization than Russia.

Biggest exaggeration the world has ever heard.

How long is Rusdia going to put up with acts of war like this?

Not much longer. Russia is losing the war and can't do much against any other country.

Bla bla bla.

Free and independent, meaning a government we toppled 2104 and then installed, in a war we very much so provoked.

We are not at war with Russia, nor is France and the UK.

These ships are in international waters.

These ships are not under a French or UK flag.

These are not war ships (not that this matters in international water).

Boarding these ships, seizing them and their precious cargo, is literally (not figuratively) the same exact thing as what was done with the privateers 400 years ago.

Read about the privateers and they will be refered to as de facto “pirates” by pretty much anyone today.

All you’re doing is the same thing the queen did, make up some new idea and formality, issuing a “letter of marque” which made these pirates at least in the eyes of the crown legit, even though EVERYONE else saw them as pirates even back then and they were often hung as pirates of caught.

Tell me, you don’t think some Houti boarding a western tanker can’t make the same exact argument you make?

https://cbs12.com/news/nation-world/houthi-video-shows-the-yemeni-rebels-planted-bombs-on-tanker-now-threatening-red-sea-oil-spill-blasts-greek-flagged-tanker-barrels-of-oil-attack-water-war-in-gaza

The whole of Europe is lost, but this time we won’t be saving their arses again.

NATO is dying, and it’s not Russia that caused that, but “allies” like France.

—

Russia at this point, has a lot more they can do.

You were right three years ago. The Russians like us when we went into Iraq 2003 were tapped out: war industry at idle, man power small and a peacetime footing (for us it was years of a peace dividend), most the older cold war stock obselete and not useful for much other than scrap metal.

For example, In 2003, between Korea (38,000 permanent party back then), the Philippines (Abu Saaef), Afghanistan, Iraq, operations in Nigeria, supporting the MFO, still in the former YU, there wasn’t much more stretch in that rubber band. We had to keep at least one full maneuver division in reserve in case of Korea. We approached it differently, we reduced our footprint in other locations and focused on Iraq and Afghanistan. We had that luxury. Powerful allies that can pick up the slack, nations like Korea that can simply up their game as we pull back a bit allowed for this. But we were nonetheless maxed out for a short time.

We at one point literally had one division (1st Cav at Hood) in reserve and essentially everything else we had was deployed, getting deployed, or just returned from deployment (reconstitution). Why do you think we were bringing in IRR, had a stop loss, and had units deployed for as long as 18 months on a single rotation early on?

Similar situation for Russia. In the meantime, Russia is totally able to push even harder than they are. They are past the point of being maxed out. In their case, it took a while to ramp up their manpower and industry from about 4%, to 7% - 8% GDP on their war machine.

Ukraine has no more to give: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=UA

Russia isn’t even close to their maximum capacity: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=RU

They just have little interest in taking most of Ukraine contrary to what is spread in our MSM and our political sphere (thier goal and that was public was never to take and hold all of Ukraine).

Just wait 6 months, we’ll see how well your Ukraine is doing when Russia starts pushing again and Ukraine begins to lose more land.

For Russia it’s merely about keeping “the pressure on.” If they let off to much and to long, Ukraine really can build up a force capable of going on the offense and taking back the lost territory. Russia also wants to create a “pricetag” both for Ukraine and the West breaking their promises of no NATO expansion, but also for not ending this war on mostly their terms. The longer Ukraine waits, the more they will lose and this winter will be the same thing.

A knuckle head like you might not have gotten the message, but I can assure you, the US, Germany, Hungary, Italy, they all got the message and the idea of Ukraine being in NATO will be buried for a long time.

There is simply to much frontage for Ukraine to cover, to much of this land provides excellent maneuver corridors. Russia simply needs to find a week spot where they can penetrate and advance into. But unlike Ukraine and their “raid” into Kursk, Russia is able to hold this territory once they take it.

It was over after the failed counter offensive. Anyone that gives a shit about their country and its people should have ended it then.

From that point on it became a war of attrition where Russia has the numbers: population, military aged males, industry and manufacturing, economic volume (GDP and PPP), R&D base.

The West, with our war industry, tech, money, can help to a degree, but the mercenaries we pay for can’t really make up for the manpower disparity.

Ukraine is making sucking sounds already, has a fully war mobilized economy and population (and is STILL falling short), while Russia has a partially mobilized economy and is relying mostly on contracted soldiers.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/57177

It’s the manpower which is the hurdle Ukraine can’t get over.

Russia essentially already achieved their goals.

—Ukraine is not in NATO: political goal.

—The more ethnic Russian areas of what was once Eastern Ukraine are now part of Russia: military objectives.

You can make up all your own goal posts in an attempt to pretend you’re winning (make belief Russian casualties - what are we up to today? LOL), but your not. You can say and dream anything you want, and talk about taking back the Crimea etc. But that’s about as likely as you having sex with Ms. America.

Ukraine lost and they aren’t digging their way out of this loss. Time is not even on their side, it’s on Russia’s.

Eventually the Euros will come to their senses and begin to push for a settlemen. It’ll be worse terms than had they settled it earlier, a year into the war when Russia was hard up but the UK sabotaged the peace efforts. At that point, with us largely out of the game, it’s the end of the rope for Ukraine.

Bottom line: you are NOT overcoming the 3.5:1 population advantage of Russia and make belief casualty ratios only serve the morale of ones side (keep them fighting) but are not affecting the reality on the ground from the Russian side.

https://youtu.be/i8Y-CYF6pOs?is=UvhsLAFRTR8DgvB8. These massive Russian casualty stories are for morale and public support, but these BS Russian casualties or our “game changing” weapons don’t really exist outside of a fantasy world.

When the negotiated peace happens, Ukraine will have won so decisively that it will be codified in the agreement that they will not be in NATO and Ukraine will lose a huge chunk of its land.

WTF!!? 27 paragraphs for that shit ?? If you can’t make your argument in 3 sentences just stfu.

Just sink the Fkn thing!

See that?

understood

Bla bla bla.

Good response... for a 5-year old.

Free and independent,

Yeah, free and independent, just like the U.S. and most western countries.

meaning a government we toppled 2104 and then installed, in a war we very much so provoked.

You skipped around the part that, we (and others) participated in toppling a stooge installed by YOU Russians and Putin. You also forgot to mention that an actual election was held in 2019 and the Ukrainians elected Zelensky with 77% of the popular voted. An election is not the same as a military coup, which is what YOU Russians like to do.

We are not at war with Russia, nor is France and the UK.

Since WWII, Russia has been at war with the U.S. and most western countries; therefore WE ARE AT WAR WITH RUSSIA. DUH!

It was called a 'cold war' for lack of violent hostilities, but, which country was the U.S. 'at war' with during that 'cold war'? That same country we were 'fighting' also had thousands of nuclear missiles aimed at us, and that country even positioned nuclear missiles 90 miles to our south. So, yeah, we are still at war with Russia.

Russia also supports our enemies who are killing our troops overseas. For a country not at war with us, they certainly have a lot of American blood on their hands.

These ships are in international waters.

No kidding! Those ships also carry oil, which is the stuff that Russia uses to fund their hostile forces. When a country is at war and has been sanctioned, whatever it possesses and wherever they are found, they have to be dealt with. International waters should not be used to transport anything that can harm people in Ukraine.

These ships are not under a French or UK flag.

No matter. The contents of those ships is/are prohibited material, if they contain Russian oil.

These are not war ships (not that this matters in international water).

WRONG! Those ships contain material that fund war-making materials or weapons, and that also fund the personnel that are fighting INSIDE Ukraine.

Boarding these ships, seizing them and their precious cargo, is literally (not figuratively) the same exact thing as what was done with the privateers 400 years ago.

The contents of those ships can be equated to missiles and drones and personnel meant to be used to kill Ukrainians. As such, it is contraband, meaning it was banned from being sold or exported. Duh!

Read about the privateers and they will be refered to as de facto “pirates” by pretty much anyone today.

Preferably, why don't you read about aggression and hostile and empire-building; terms which are very applicable to the enemy the world is confronting right now. The pirate BS is not applicable in this world scenario. It is LEGAL to seize the oil shipments, since it's banned by Russia to sell or export the stuff. The pirates were thieves; the French and British and Americans, are enforcing international law. Geesh!

All you’re doing is the same thing the queen did, make up some new idea and formality, issuing a “letter of marque” which made these pirates at least in the eyes of the crown legit, even though EVERYONE else saw them as pirates even back then and they were often hung as pirates of caught.

Still a lot of bullshit! Equating piracy to what is happening now, is delusional and asinine. Enforcing international law is not piracy. You need to educate yourself, although I know you're just trying to justify and rationalize your side's take on things.

Tell me, you don’t think some Houti boarding a western tanker can’t make the same exact argument you make?

Nope! They can't. Iran is a terrorist nation, and the Houthis are just a proxy acting on behalf of Iran, which makes the Houtis a terrorist organization, and terrorism should never be tolerated anywhere in the world. In your Houti example, the Houthies would be the equivalent of Russia; iow, the hostile nation going against international law. Your analogy stinks to high-heaven.

https://cbs12.com/news/nation-world/houthi-video-shows-the-yemeni-rebels-planted-bombs-on-tanker-now-threatening-red-sea-oil-spill-blasts-greek-flagged-tanker-barrels-of-oil-attack-water-war-in-gaza

I see you applauding the Houtis chanting "death to America". Get into the real world. You and your fellow Russians are no better than the terrorist Houtis.

We sink their ships, they sink our ships, and now you have WWIII.

Short enough for you to understand?

Post WWII we live in the age of limited warfare.

There is a reason for this.

Massive alliance systems + industry + technology + nukes post WWII = apocalyptic wars.

Fools attempt to over simplify the world so that things are easy for them to comprehend.