[SmokingJoe]

Europeans just never stop trying to get America to pay for their stupid endless wars.
Again, Trump is not falling for their nonsense.
Let Europeans pay for their stupid wars.
Its not America's problem.
Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever.

[Unassuaged]

“Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever.”

Well, they did let us build all those bio-labs ;)

[adorno]

Europeans just never stop trying to get America to pay for their stupid endless wars.

It's Putin's war. It's Ukraine's war, which then makes it Europe's war.

Most of Europe are NATO members. The U.S. is a NATO member. Putin picked on the wrong target, which indirectly includes the U.S.

So, why don't you ask Putin why he invaded a European country, which most of Europe had to get involved in?

[Williams]

They are paying for it and yes Ukraine is an ally.

Support Trump.

[FenwickBabbitt]

From what I understand, the weapons are being purchased, so we should not be “paying” for anyone’s war and of course we are getting some of their natural resources. I think you have to remember that Trump genuinely wants this war over with as he’s said all along, and as a negotiator he knows that you get the best results if you pressure both sides.

He’s tried being tough on Ukraine, but that wasn’t enough to bring peace. Now he wants to try being tough on Russia to force a peace. It’s just the other side of the same strategy. It is possible that Putin thought the US would just let him take the whole country with no pushback (even though that still would not be easy for him), so maybe he’ll be more willing to negotiate in good faith if he thinks the war will be much harder for him after all.

I think this is a strategy that is worth trying. Trump tried the carrot; now he wants to try the stick. He wants to force Putin to agree to a reasonable peace and have this over with.

[Vermont Lt]

Ah….Trump is making Europe pay for it this time.

You might want to read some of the stories.

[BeauBo]

“Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever.”

They were on our side in WWII.

[BeauBo]

“Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever.”

They were on our side in WWII.

[USA-FRANCE]

“Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever.”

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your comment based on ignorance.

WHY Ukraine is a TRUE ALLY of the United States (and why helping them matters, either giving or selling them defensive weapons) :

They’ve contributed to U.S. missions. Ukrainian troops served alongside U.S. and NATO forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. They weren’t just talk—they showed up!!

They’re literally fighting our geopolitical enemy. Russia is America’s top adversary, and Ukraine is doing the heavy lifting in weakening Putin’s military without a single American boot on the ground. That’s huge.

They gave up nukes—for peace. Ukraine once had the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal after the Soviet collapse. They gave it up in 1994 in exchange for security assurances from the U.S., UK, and Russia (Budapest Memorandum). We promised to help if they were attacked.

They support Western values. Ukraine is striving for democracy, freedom of speech, a free press, rule of law—everything the U.S. says it stands for. They’ve literally been dying for these values.

They’ve been a strategic partner for decades. Since the 1990s, Ukraine has worked with the U.S. on defense reform, anti-terrorism, and intelligence sharing. They’ve been a steady partner for years.

They’re keeping Europe stable. A free Ukraine helps ensure a stable Europe, which is vital for U.S. economic and security interests. Chaos in Europe never ends well for us.

They’ve modernized in our image. Ukraine’s military and government reforms are modeled after NATO and U.S. structures. They want to join our team—not Russia’s. That’s ally behavior.

Their victory is our victory. Every tank they destroy, every missile they intercept, every Russian position they take—it all directly weakens a regime that actively works to undermine U.S. democracy, elections, and alliances.

They send the right message to China and Iran. If we let Ukraine fall, it tells China it can take Taiwan and Iran it can bully the Middle East. Support for Ukraine is deterrence without direct war.

Public opinion in Ukraine is overwhelmingly pro-American. Polls show Ukrainians want closer ties with the U.S. and Europe, not Russia. That’s a rare and valuable thing in this world.

It’s a test of our credibility. If the U.S. abandons its partners, we lose all moral authority and influence. Why would anyone trust us again if we bail when it’s tough?

It’s cost-effective support. For a fraction of the U.S. defense budget, we’re helping cripple the military of our top rival. That’s probably the best bang-for-buck national security investment in modern history.

They’re exposing Russian weaknesses. Ukraine’s fight has revealed how hollow and corrupt the Russian military is. U.S. strategists are learning valuable lessons without a war of our own.

Helping Ukraine protects our own troops. The more Ukraine weakens Russia now, the less likely we’ll need to fight them—or another power emboldened by their success—later.

Ukraine admires the U.S. and what it represents. They wave American flags in protests and parliaments. That’s the kind of ally you support—not dismiss.

[Eleutheria5]

“Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever.”

When were they supposed to be? During the Chmelnicki uprising of 1648, there was no USA. By the time the USA came into being, Ukraine was part of the czarist empire. During the Cold War, Ukraine was in the Soviet Union whether they wanted to be or not. Lenin renegged on his promise to support Ukrainian independence, saying that he was “protecting” Ukraine from western exploitation. For the past 30-some-odd years, Ukraine was gaining real independence from Russia, so couldn’t be anyone’s ally. That fight goes on, and a surefire way to win friends and influence people is by helping them gain their independence, as France once did for the United States.

[BroJoeK]

SmokinJoe: "Europeans just never stop trying to get America to pay for their stupid endless wars."

During WWII, several European countries, especially the UK, transferred their gold reserves to Fort Knox, Kentucky, for safe keeping and to pay their wartime bills.
The total was about 3,000 metric Tonnes, which in 1940 was worth about $3.4 billion, but in today's GDP terms is $1 trillion.
Nearly all of that 3,000 metric tonnes is still in Fort Knox -- it represents about 2/3 of all gold in Fort Knox and 1/3 of all US gold reserves.

Of course, WWII cost the US around $50 trillion in today's values, so $1 trillion in European gold far from paid for the whole war.
But it did help, and it's still here.

1991: Pres. GHW Bush in Ukraine for "Chicken Kyiv" speech:

SmokinJoe: "Ukraine has never been an American ally. Ever."

Even before Ukraine declared independence in December 1991, it was a US friend and ally.
A partial listing of important events includes:

1. 1991 -- In August, US Pres. GHW Bush visited Ukraine and urged Ukrainians to seek independence peacefully.

2. 1991 -- In December, US Sec. of State Baker met Ukraine's new President Kravchuk shortly after Ukraine’s independence.
   They discussed nuclear disarmament and Ukraine's transition to democracy and a market economy.

3. 1992 -- US aid to Ukraine began, averaging nearly $1 billion per year in current values, throughout the 1990s.

   1994 Budapest Memorandum -- Clinton, Yeltsin & Kravchuk:

   

4. 1993 -- US Sec. of State Christopher met Ukraine's President Kravchuk to discuss Ukraine's nuclear disarmament, US security guarantees and aid for democratic and economic reforms.

5. 1994 -- US Pres. Clinton met with Ukraine's President Leonid Kravchuk in Kyiv.

6. 1994 -- Ukraine joined NATO's Partnership For Peace, widely seen as a steppingstone to formal membership (Russia also joined at this time)

7. 1994 -- Ukraine, Russia, UK & US signed the Budapest Memorandum guaranteeing Ukraine's security in exchange for nuclear disarmament.

8. 1995 -- Clinton returned for a state visit, reinforcing U.S. support for Ukraine’s independence and reform.

9. 1998 -- US Sec. of State Albright met with Ukraine Pres. Kuchma to sign several strategic agreements, including peaceful use of nuclear technologies.

10. 2002 -- Ukraine declared its intention to become a full NATO member and also began to seek membership in the European Union.
    The prospect for NATO membership was cautiously welcomed by US Pres. GW Bush and NATO Sec. General Robertson and was not strongly opposed by Russia's Pres. Putin.

Bottom line: the US has supported Ukraine's independence from before Day One, to include: 1) nearly $1 billion per year (in today's values) for economic and military assistance, 2) security support represented by NATO's Partnership for Peace and by guarantees promised in the Budapest Memorandum and 3) numerous other assurances from US presidents, beginning with Clinton.

Putin, Bush & other leaders at 2002 NATO summit in Rome: