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Missteps, Equipment Problems and a Common but Risky Practice Led to a Fatal Crash
dbtyz ^ | 04 27 2025 | Staff

Posted on 04/27/2025 10:01:21 AM PDT by yesthatjallen

As they flew south along the Potomac River on the gusty night of Jan. 29, the crew aboard an Army Black Hawk helicopter attempted to execute a common aviation practice. It would play a role in ending their lives.

Shortly after the Black Hawk passed over Washington’s most famous array of cherry trees, an air traffic controller at nearby Ronald Reagan National Airport alerted the crew to a regional passenger jet in its vicinity. The crew acknowledged seeing traffic nearby.

One of the pilots then asked for permission to employ a practice called “visual separation.” That allows a pilot to take control of navigating around other aircraft, rather than relying on the controller for guidance.

“Visual separation approved,” the controller replied.

The request to fly under those rules is granted routinely in airspace overseen by controllers. Most of the time, visual separation is executed without note. But when mishandled, it can also create a deadly risk — one that aviation experts have warned about for years.

On Jan. 29, the Black Hawk crew did not execute visual separation effectively. The pilots either did not detect the specific passenger jet the controller had flagged, or could not pivot to a safer position. Instead, one second before 8:48 p.m., the helicopter slammed into American Airlines Flight 5342, which was carrying 64 people to Washington from Wichita, Kan., killing everyone aboard both aircraft in a fiery explosion that lit the night sky over the river.

SNIP

(Excerpt) Read more at dnyuz.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airsafety; aviation; blackhawk; dei; helicopter; potomacriver
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1 posted on 04/27/2025 10:01:21 AM PDT by yesthatjallen
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To: yesthatjallen
From the article: Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.

That's not a "misstep", that's criminal negligence.

The self-direction she failed at, months to years before that flight, was to direct herself to say "no" to those who steered her toward aviation.

Failing that, her next self-direction she missed was directing herself to turn in her wings.

2 posted on 04/27/2025 10:06:49 AM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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"...The helicopter crew appeared to have made more than one mistake. Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.

"Radio communications, the tried-and-true means of interaction between controllers and pilots, also broke down. Some of the controller’s instructions were 'stepped on' — meaning that they cut out when the helicopter crew pressed a microphone to speak — and important information likely went unheard.

"Technology on the Black Hawk that would have allowed controllers to better track the helicopter was turned off. Doing so was Army protocol, meant to allow the pilots to practice secretly whisking away a senior government official in an emergency. But at least some experts believe that turning off the system deprived everyone involved of another safeguard..."

3 posted on 04/27/2025 10:07:52 AM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("...mit Pulver und Blei, Die Gedanken sind frei!")
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To: yesthatjallen

.edia is working really hard to bury the stark truth.

“Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.”

I read elsewhere that it wasn’t final seconds but the last 2.5 minutes the female pilot ignored multiple istructio s to lower her altitude.

But they are working mighty hard to spread the blame as many places as possible.


4 posted on 04/27/2025 10:12:11 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Not even the police are safe from the police!!!)
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To: yesthatjallen

Who is dbtyz and where did they get this information? From a preliminary accident investigation or are they just saying what they think happen from the number of unofficial reports out there. One part of what they are saying doesn’t really sound right, hough it could be and that is that the instructor told the female pilot a number of times to correct her altitude and she didn’t. In any flight environment, but especially in the one they were in, it the pilot doesn’t follow the instructors commands, the instructor takes the airplane away and corrects the flight condition. So, it makes me wonder why that didn’t happen.


5 posted on 04/27/2025 10:24:34 AM PDT by falcon99 ( )
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To: Valpal1

“Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high”

Other pilots who fly Blackhawks on that route have said the altimeter wasn’t set properly by the pilots and was showing a lower altitude than their actual altitude.

That should come out when the final NTSB report is released.


6 posted on 04/27/2025 10:25:05 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (The road is a dangerous place man, you can die out here...or worse. -Johnny Paycheck, 1980, Reno, NV)
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To: T.B. Yoits
Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.

That's not a "misstep", that's criminal negligence.

Indeed.

7 posted on 04/27/2025 10:25:06 AM PDT by Rummyfan ( In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.)
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To: Valpal1
“Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.”

My question woul be why didn't the instructor take control? Maybe they ran out of time?

8 posted on 04/27/2025 10:27:04 AM PDT by Rummyfan ( In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.)
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To: falcon99

The pilot ignored the altitude warning because the altimeter said 200 feet (right at their max allowed height), which would have been fine. The altimeter wasn’t set correctly, they were actually at about 300 feet.


9 posted on 04/27/2025 10:28:01 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (The road is a dangerous place man, you can die out here...or worse. -Johnny Paycheck, 1980, Reno, NV)
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To: Who is John Galt?

“Doing so was Army protocol, meant to allow the pilots to practice secretly whisking away a senior government official in an emergency. But at least some experts believe that turning off the system deprived everyone involved of another safeguard...”

A military practice exercise should never be conducted in a way that puts the general public at risk. If the military must practice whisking away VIP’s in the approach to a high traffic commercial airport, the airport should be shut down to incoming and outgoing traffic during the exercise.

The purpose of the military is to protect the civilian population, not to engage in training exercises in locations resulting in the death of 64 civilians. Secretary of Defense Hegseth, and the senior military staff should conduct a full review of all training exercises potentially endangering the general public and make appropriate changes to eliminate risk to the public.

If night training flights down the Potomac are truly essential to national security and military preparedness, Reagan National Airport can be shut down during the period the training flights are in the vicinity of the airport. The same with any other commercial airport whose routine airspace needs to be infringed on by military operations from time to time. Doesn’t Palm Beach International Airport shut down to other traffic when President Trump’s plane is landing or taking off at Mar a Lago.?

If we are truly a nation where the central premise of government is all citizens are created equal, preparations for whisking away senior government officials do not justify the death of 64 American citizens. Our founding fathers would be appalled we have developed an elite aristocracy ruling us whose lives are perceived as more important than the average person going about his or her daily business.


10 posted on 04/27/2025 10:30:00 AM PDT by Soul of the South (The past is gone and cannot be changed. Tomorrow can be a better day if we work on it.)
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To: yesthatjallen
This is a good analysis of the classic cascade of seemingly minor things that add up to a disaster. It also lacks the emotional hysteria that initially followed the accident.

One thing still missing in this analysis IMO, is the timing change caused when the American flight changed runways. The modification of their approach to the other runway coincidentally cause them to be in the wrong place at the wrong time by extending their time in the air. Original runway heading, no conflict. Earlier decision to change runways, no conflict.

11 posted on 04/27/2025 10:32:58 AM PDT by pfflier
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To: SaxxonWoods
- That should come out when the final NTSB report is released. -

And hopefully we'll get an accurate NTSB report.

12 posted on 04/27/2025 10:34:14 AM PDT by ken in texas
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To: ken in texas

I think this one is going to be relatively easy. The copter wasn’t where it belonged and that’s a known fact already since the altitude of both aircraft at impact is known. The plane was right where it belonged.


13 posted on 04/27/2025 11:02:47 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (The road is a dangerous place man, you can die out here...or worse. -Johnny Paycheck, 1980, Reno, NV)
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To: pfflier

That’s a good point that I haven’t heard much about. Maybe because it’s an error that occurs and there’s no conspiracy or other motivation behind it. It is just that…an error…a human component we’ll never remove as long as there are humans doing these things.


14 posted on 04/27/2025 11:05:56 AM PDT by ripnbang ("An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man, a subject.")
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To: yesthatjallen

Was this the chopper that had the former beauty queen as the pilot? Or did they ever reveal who was the actual pilot was?


15 posted on 04/27/2025 11:06:53 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: yesthatjallen
The pilots either did not detect the specific passenger jet

So there were two pilots physically flying the chopper? Right!

16 posted on 04/27/2025 11:08:25 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: yesthatjallen
The pilots either did not detect the specific passenger jet the controller had flagged, or could not pivot to a safer position

Maybe the "Pilots" were fighting over who was actually flying the chopper?

17 posted on 04/27/2025 11:14:16 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: SaxxonWoods

“...the altimeter wasn’t set properly by the pilots...”

Has to be set to current barometric pressure EVERYTIME before takeoff!


18 posted on 04/27/2025 11:23:47 AM PDT by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
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To: Bonemaker

“Has to be set to current barometric pressure EVERYTIME before takeoff!”

Yep, copter was at 300 feet at crash, altimeter was verbally reported by crew to be at 200 feet. At 200 feet, no collision.


19 posted on 04/27/2025 11:33:32 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (The road is a dangerous place man, you can die out here...or worse. -Johnny Paycheck, 1980, Reno, NV)
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To: yesthatjallen

Trying to deflect from DEI by blaming “practices”.


20 posted on 04/27/2025 11:34:36 AM PDT by CodeToad
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