Discuss: Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. Now it's asking why

BBC ^ | 5 December 2024 | Paul Adams

[NoLibZone]

Under heavy grey skies and a thin coating of snow, hulking grey and green Cold War relics recall Ukraine’s Soviet past.

Missiles, launchers and transporters stand as monuments to an era when Ukraine played a key role in the Soviet Union’s nuclear weapons programme - its ultimate line of defence.

As a newly independent Ukraine emerged from under Moscow’s shadow in the early 1990s, Kyiv turned its back on nuclear weapons.

But nearly three years after Russia’s full-scale invasion, and with no clear agreement among allies on how to guarantee Ukraine’s security when the war ends, many now feel that was a mistake.

Thirty years ago, on 5 December 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia.

Strictly speaking, the missiles belonged to the Soviet Union, not to its newly independent former republics.

But a third of the USSR’s nuclear stockpile was located on Ukrainian soil, and handing over the weapons was regarded as a significant moment, worthy of international recognition.

“The pledges on security assurances that [we] have given these three nations…underscore our commitment to the independence, the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of these states,” then US President Bill Clinton said in Budapest.

As a young graduate of a military academy in Kharkiv, Oleksandr Sushchenko arrived at Pervomais’k two years later, just as the process of decommissioning was getting under way.

He watched as the missiles were taken away and the silos blown up. Now he’s back at the base as one of the museum’s curators.

[silverleaf]

Ukraine never had a “ nuclear arsenal”
Weapons of the Soviet Union ( Moscow) were deployed in some of the Republics. They always remained under the positive control of Russia and could only be armed by Russia. It was a no-brainer that they were redeployed to Russia. In fact there were concerns all around that Ukraine the worlds most corrupt country would try to sell those weapons on the black market if they got control

Shudder to think what nimrods like Zelensky and AZOV would do with nucs.
Bad enough his is the only regime in history willing to sabotage or attack his own country’s nuc power plants to try and create a radiation contamination situation to deny territory to Russia ( and everyone else in the affected area)

[Gaffer]

Divine intervention so that 30 years later a petty madman would not have his finger on the nuclear trigger and start WWIII.

[TexasFreeper2009]

their mistake, that I am betting no one in the future will ever make again.

[NoLibZone]

Thank you!

[Dennis M.]

Kind of weird they would be afraid of the weapons melting down. It isn’t really isn’t possible without some significant effort.

[Varsity Flight]

“The pledges on security assurances that [we] have given these three nations…underscore our commitment to the independence, the sovereignty”

” Independence, sovereignty “ does not mean defending a Little Hitler.

[Repeal The 17th]

Bill Clinton gave Ukraine a wink and a nod
with nothing backing it up.
Ukraine fell for it.

[mbrfl]

Yes they did give up their nuclear arsenal at the west’s urging and the west made promises. But Trump wasn’t the one who encouraged Russia to invade Ukraine then sit back and settled in for a protracted, bloody stalemate. The Biden administration didn’t send troops to defend Ukraine (nor should they have) but now some want Trump to reverse all the incursions into Ukraine that were presided over by Bush, Obama and Biden. That’s not going to happen.

[Colorado Doug]

They screwed up. That’s why we won’t give up our guns.

[DesertRhino]

They never owned any. They never had operational control of any. Soviet nukes were located there and Ukraine gave up a claim on them.

And thank god there is not a nazi bomb out there today.

[dfwgator]

When did the Senate ratify it?

[Nifster]

You gave up those weapons so the whole world wasn’t destroyed

[Carl Vehse]

If they had not been returned to Russia, the nukes in Ukraine would probably have been sold to the Islamists (and would have probably been used against the West by now).

[Robert DeLong]

They were worthless to Ukraine, as Ukraine did not have the launch codes. I’m so tired of this issue being constantly brought up.

[Doulos1]

Bill Clinton did it.
Uk’s shouldn’t have trusted a Democrat.

[logi_cal869]

Ukraine had no nuclear weapons.

Asinine position.

They were Russian nukes, and they were in no position to keep them, fall of ‘soviet union’ or not.

[rellic]

Answer is simple how many countries has Russia invaded?
How many has NATO invaded?
Seems pretty straight forward.

[CatHerd]

Daniel1212: Great post. Thank you for going to the time and trouble. I do hope everyone on this thread will read it.

Alberta’s Child: Yes, precisely. In addition to “corrupt, dysfunctional, and backward” we can add “inherently unstable”. The last sort of entity anyone wanted to be in possession of nuclear warheads.

[daniel1212]

So to prove NATO (with about average 2% GDP for defense in 2014) is only imagining it is needed to deter Putin aggression, he invades (in two stages) a country that lacks NATO protection. Perfectly logical.

Putin bemoans the loss of Soviet power, and NATO countries like the map they had before Putin's invasion, much better than an older one Putin can only dream of.

https://countrymapss.blogspot.com/2014/01/nato-countries-map-1949.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union

However, all are at war with God to varying degrees, being instruments of chastisement to each others. Not new:

And in those times there was no peace to him that went out, nor to him that came in, but great vexations were upon all the inhabitants of the countries. And nation was destroyed of nation, and city of city: for God did vex them with all adversity. (2 Chronicles 15:5-6)

And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman...and he was found of them: and the Lord gave them rest round about. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13,15)

Lord, have mercy.

Putin bemoans the loss of Soviet power, and NATO countries like the map they had before Putin's invasion, much better than an older one Putin can only dream of.

https://countrymapss.blogspot.com/2014/01/nato-countries-map-1949.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union

[delta7]

They weren’t Ukrainian. The Russians ( Soviet Russia) designed, manufactured and maintained them. UkSSR had the largest number of nukes in the world.