Posted on 02/02/2025 5:25:03 AM PST by Roadrunner383
Preliminary data from the deadliest U.S. aviation accident in nearly 25 years showed conflicting readings about the altitudes of an airliner and Army helicopter when they collided near Reagan National Airport in Washington, killing everyone aboard both aircraft, investigators said Saturday.
Data from the jet’s flight recorder showed its altitude as 325 feet (99 meters), plus or minus 25 feet (7.6 meters), when the crash happened Wednesday night, National Transportation Safety Board officials told reporters. Data in the control tower, though, showed the Black Hawk helicopter at 200 feet (61 meters) at the time.
Investigators hope to reconcile the altitude differences with data from the helicopter's black box, which is taking more time to retrieve because it became waterlogged after it plunged into the Potomac River. They also said they plan to refine the tower data, which can be less reliable.
Officials say the helicopter’s maximum allowed altitude at the time was 200 feet (61 meters).
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
I thought they couldn't even get readings from low flying aircraft which is why planes shut their transponders off below 1,000 ft.
Seems like a good ATC would be asking both of them to confirm their altitudes when they’re about to cross each other’s paths. Should be SOP for that area where there’s a lot of path crossings.
faulty calibration of the helo altimeter is one potential cause—or malfunction of same
I bet they do.
My unconventional hypothesis is that at the point of the crash that they were both at the same altitude.
The latest buzz is that the helo staff was looking at the wrong plane.
The RADAR Approach control data, and the Enroute data, are accurate to the second due to ADS-B and Fusion of radar site data.
The CTRD data is merely an aid and not to be relied on for radar services (usually.) NTSB will rely on the Enroute and
Approach control data for their report.
Maybe you just explained why control-tower data is inaccurate? You sound like you probably know this, but for the sake of others: “UFO” are the call letters for any craft with its transponder off (as opposed to SWA, UAL, TWA, etc.) (TWA? You can see how old my knowledge is...) In the cold-war days, you could watch UFOs fly from Cuba towards Russia all the time. You could still click on them, and get their data (orientation, speed, altitude, etc.) (I wasn’t an ATC, but in the ATC center, there were plenty of unused test CRT stations that were functional.)
When planes approach an airport, they turn off their transponders because they’re useless, inaccurate, and create visual clutter. (Maybe this needs to be reconsidered near DCA?) Without a transponder, ground control is only looking at radar reflections, and radar bounces off rain, fog, mountains (if there were any near DCA), etc. Keep in mind a building wouldn’t have to be 1,000 feet tall to reflect radar as if it were 1,000 feet tall; it nearly has to be tall enough to reach between a line from the radar and the object being tracked. Software can clear away this visual noise.
But while I’m no expert, I would trust an altimeter over a radar reflection.
Just the facts.
We’ve all seen enough BS from both sides.
The laws of thermodynamics support your hypothesis.
CC
Some say the co-pilot being gay was a factor, but
that doesn’t always factor in every mistake one makes.
It doesn’t.
It also makes people sit up and take notice about the
vagaries of DEI and a sorry lack of the common sense factor.
“My unconventional hypothesis is that at the point of the crash that they were both at the same altitude.”
+/- the height of both aircraft.
Seems like the more likely favoritism comes from the fact that she was a FOB (FOJ? Friend of Brandon?), a social director for the Biden White House with minimal flight experience performing training for evacuating the White House. Probably had really nice smelling hair, if you get my reference.
That’s interesting, because I saw a video of the controller screen, and the helicopter’s height was tagged as “003”.
Seems more likely her favoritism comes from the fact that she was a “Friend of Biden”,
<><>a social director for the Biden White House
<><>had minimal flight experience
<><>in-training for evacuating the White House.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4294199/posts?page=58#58
If you look at the upper plot the helicopter had been at 200 feet until it climbed to 300 feet in four seconds. (Points 3 and 4) about 30 seconds before the crash.
“Waterlogged” black box? That’s a new one to me. I don’t ever remember hearing that as an excuse for a black box as they are built to withstand all sorts of destructive calamities. (So I’ve read…)
So there is an altimeter reading, tower reading, and black box reading on each of the aircraft involved?
If the outlier is in the helicopter, maybe its altimeter was faulty? Sounds funny to me, based on how much we rely on gadgetry. And an altimeter is absolutely essential to flight operations.
The whole incident is starting to smell funny to me.
I don't know squat aside from bits and pieces learned in the past few days.
But while I’m no expert, I would trust an altimeter over a radar reflection.
Hence my other comment: Seems like a good ATC would be asking both of them to confirm their altitudes when they’re about to cross each other’s paths.
Lack of communication can plague any field.
Even if the airliner was too low, it was _cleared_ by the tower to land. Helicopter was operating under VFR. IMO, someone in the helicopter should have seen it and acted to avoid it.
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