ZEEPER FOLLIES PINGLIST!(((PING!)))
Posted on 12/30/2024 11:08:29 AM PST by Alter Kaker
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov rejected proposals Monday floated by President-elect Trump’s allies to end the war in Ukraine, dealing a major setback for the incoming president’s hopes to freeze the conflict.
In an interview with Russian state-run media outlet TASS, Lavrov said Moscow has “not received any official signals regarding a settlement in Ukraine” but the Kremlin was resistant to those unofficial ideas.
“We are not happy, of course, with the proposals made by members of the Trump team to postpone Ukraine’s admission to NATO for 20 years and to station British and European peacekeeping forces in Ukraine,” he said, responding to leaked reports of Trump’s proposals.
Lavrov called for “reliable and legally binding agreements that would eliminate the root causes of the conflict and seal a mechanism precluding the possibility of their violation.”
Trump has not officially released any proposals to end the war, and earlier this month he admitted it would be more difficult to solve than the Middle East conflict. Still, Trump campaigned on ending the war by the time he takes office and has also claimed he could end it within 24 hours of his taking office.
In a Time magazine interview this month, Trump said he would not release his proposal because it would become “a worthless plan” once made public. But he pledged he would not abandon Ukraine amid fears he would give up eastern Ukrainian territory seized by Russian forces in the war without finding a solution that would protect Kyiv.
“I want to reach an agreement, and the only way you’re going to reach an agreement is not to abandon,” Trump said.
His advisers, including retired Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, whom Trump tapped for his special envoy to Ukraine, have proposed pushing Ukraine to the table by threatening to cut off aid and getting Russian President Vladimir Putin to negotiate with the threat of surging weapons.
Solutions to end the war reportedly include abandoning NATO membership aspirations for Ukraine and supporting a European peacekeeping force in return for security guarantees.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has made NATO membership a key part of his victory plan, and Ukrainian officials have pushed for legitimate security guarantees, which is unlikely to happen outside of NATO.
Lavrov said Russia “would refuse to accept Ukraine’s NATO membership regardless of the territorial factor.”
ZEEPER FOLLIES PINGLIST!(((PING!)))
The 20-year thing is a non-starter. Russia isn’t going to accept Ukraine eventually joining NATO for the same reason that the U.S. in, say 1965, wouldn’t have accepted some kind of deal to allow Mexico or Canada to join the Warsaw Pact after 1985.
Kellogg’s proposal is just theater. WE are the ones who desperately need a cease fire because the nazi forces are falling apart, our weapons stocks are too low to send much more, we are broke, and we want to pivot to China.
The person who desperately NEEDS the car, doesn’t get to set terms.
Two, the stated Russian goal is that Ukraine must denazify, and be neutral. Our offer is to leave the Nazis in place, send British, French and other NATO soldiers into Ukraine, conclude a defense pact with Ukraine, and start them on a 20 year path to be in NATO. We would never accept it if Mexico announced they would allow China to fully occupy them, but not for 20 years.
Three, Minsk means there is no trust. Merkel and Macron both openly said Minsk was just a ruse to get time to build up the Uke military.
And the crazy part... we offer nothing in return. No end of sanctions, no demand the nazis be eradicated from Uke government, no return of the hundreds of billions of gold and currency, the yachts and properties we confiscated.
No reopening the embassies we closed. No turning on SWIFT.
It is simply not a serious offer to put in front of a statesman like Lavrov.
“Stupid. Putin is playing with fire - and way, way overplaying his hand.”
When you negotiate, sometimes you got to meet in the middle. That means your starting point has to be on your side. The fact that the Russians are listening means they aren’t stupid. Perhaps the Chinese claiming their territory as traditionally part of China got their attention.
I like a strong independent Russia, it’s a good balance for the world. The Ukraine war is destroying that, as well as many young lives. Russia has security concerns, and they should. I wish Clinton had just made them part of NATO when they asked.
“The 20-year thing is a non-starter. Russia isn’t going to accept Ukraine eventually joining NATO for the same reason that the U.S. in, say 1965, wouldn’t have accepted some kind of deal to allow Mexico or Canada to join the Warsaw Pact after 1985.”
The BIGGER PROBLEM, given the Neocon record towards Russia dating back to the end of the Cold War (”not one inch east”) has been that any credibility that the Neocons may have had, is long gone.
So, for Russia, 20 years in Neocon talk equals 20 days in their Julian Calendar - meaning any promises for something in the future is not going to be accepted. So sorry Zeepers, the war continues until the Neocons show signs of even wanting to end it. Soon, Odessa will be lost, for good, by the way.
Russia would be foolish to accept this proposal. What the Eurotrash and our MIC would do is flood Ukraine with troops and war material and then start the war again.
Which contradicts the title of this article.
“some kind of deal to allow Mexico or Canada to join the Warsaw Pact after 1985.”
Mexico and Canada never had any interest in joining the Warsaw pact whereas Ukraine is interested in joining NATO.
Russia doesn’t seem to be willing to accept the reason why other countries in their neighborhood want to join NATO.
Lavrov’s statments are either negotiations before the real negotiations, or the same Russian bluster we have seen throughout the Russian invasion.
Well stated. Here’s what I think will happen:
1. Kellogg will be given a DETAILED history lesson by the Russians regarding what the Neocons have done for the past 35 years.
2. Kellogg will then find the Russians un-moving in their demands (just as we were towards the end of WW2).
3. Kellogg will correctly figure out that he has been LIED TO by the Western Media and probably the US Government regarding the reasons for the war. [they kept telling him it was just a simple land grab]
4. Kellogg will throw his hands up and quit.
5. Trump will appoint a negotiator that has not drank the Neocon Koolaid regarding the war.
6. Ukraine will quickly agree to end the war, since the US has FINALLY wised-up to the Neocons.
Trump may then throw-in some sweeteners to the Russians, like removing our forces and hardware from Europe, so this crap doesn’t happen again the next time we elect a Democrat to run the country.
Opening negotiations folks. Nobody scores at the beginning.
Ukraine must never be admitted to NATO!
And the USA should consider withdrawing from NATO as well.
Putin is not going to negotiate and give up on his demands.
Manas is not going to go away and will keep their hostages.
China is not goint to give up their desire to take Taiwan.
Iran will continue to be ruled by the Ayatollahs and will continue to make life hell to its neighbors.
N.Korea will continue to develop their missile and nuclear technology.
Cuba and Venezuela will continue being ruled by communists, even if all their people die of hunger.
Trump can change things at home, but foreign policy is a different and not so manageable animal.
Yup!
These ideas being sold in Trump’s name one linked to “Trump’s team” are NATO troops as ‘peacekeepers’.
Russia got into this war to keep NATO troops away from their borders.
It’s not a peace plan it’s a victory plan for the Neocons.
Russia will reject such crap.
Russia wants Ukraine neutralized militarily not a place where NATO troops are based as “peacekeepers” or anything else.
Putin is a nuclear power just like us.
Here's what I think will happen:
When Trump stands up to Russia, the true believing MAGA-means-Russia types are going to turn on Trump.
There are glaring differences:
1. The USA does not claim that either Canada or Mexico are illegitimate countries that should be part of the USA.
2. The USA does not and did not in 1985 threaten either of those countries with invasion and conquest.
The USA is in military and industrial decline.
And 50 years of de-Industrialization does not magically go away just because Trump is sworn in on Jan 20.
And the entire post-WW2 of the US military prioritizing social agendas over military capability (starting with military de-segregation) doesn’t change just because Trump is sworn in.
the Ukraine War is going to be decided on the battlefield.
Russia no longer credits NATO promises on expansion, or anything else.
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