Running an electric car is twice as expensive as a petrol one

For short trips such as shopping or commuting an EV makes most sense. Unfortunately not (don’t take wrong) everyone can afford multiple cars. So this is a problem for those who may use an EV for daily trips, but does not work for weekends, etc. If one is married then an EV and an ICE is a compromise, which is functional. This is always the issue with new technology, implementation is a compromise.

Here is the actual science. A fully loaded truck does the same wear rate as 9600 light duty vehicles.

https://www.gao.gov/products/109954

In the light duty vehicle segment the number one selling vehicle is the F150 it out sells any other LDV.

2024 F150 curb weight range over its models
4,391 to 5,863 lbs

2024 Tesla S
4,560 to 4,776 lbs

the Tesla S haswider tires on it than the F150 which means is tire footprint PSI is less even at equal curb weight. Since wear rates scale at the quad function of psi the Tesla always would have less wear than a F150 of equal weight. Again the F150 is the most popular vehicle in the USA so there is no way full sized EVs are doing more road wear than the truck bro mafia and their pristine trucks that have never seen a worksite or off road. They are yuppie grocery getters for the truck bro gang. I see them all the time at Bucees not a scratch on the bed nor a tow hitch to be seen they are commuter vehicles for dudes with dadbods and bald spots to go to their office jobs from the suburbs.

I own these next two and the S60 is doing more road wear as they sit on identical tires and I mean identical they were a set of 8 delivered to my steel building.

2023 Model 3 which I lease one.
3,862 to 4,054 lbs

S60 Volvo T5 AWD which sits next to the Tesla
4,020 lbs

“yet on average do more road damage than the average automobile because their weight.”

That dog don’t hunt.

The average EV is a sedan. Most ICE vehicles are trucks and SUVs which weigh more than an EV sedan.

I have multiple vehicles,but my Tesla has rapidly become the primary use one for anything on road. I have taken it to Florida from DFW and regularly take it to Houston and Midland with at least four times a year to Biloxi and New Orleans too. Tesla has superchargers every 50 miles or so down all the interstates its no longer a issue to go far in a Tesla the cars tech takes you right to one of you need it before you get to your designation it even let’s you reserve a spot and won’t let anyone else charge in it till you get there it’s simply off until it recognizes your car by the plug handshake. Yes you pay by the hour to reserve a spot but don’t be a poor and it doesn’t matter. The charge is small anyways.

Look at how this country is blanketed with chargers. Then filter down to 50kw those are fast DC then put a 150 mile circle around each of them that’s the out and back distance a Model 3 will do with reserve range. In Texas there is only two spots anywhere in the whole state they are in the desert right up against Mexico everywhere else is in range of a fast DC. Then filter back too L2 and destination chargers with a 5 to 8 hour stay you’re back to 80% the “full” point for NMC cells. LFP like 100% vs NMC at 80%

https://chargefinder.com/us/search

Truth is we are an urban country 75% of people live in an urban census area. Most trips as in 96% are 30 miles or less. This means even a 150 mile not a 375 mile EV would work for the daily use of 96% of all Americans use cycle. This site is an echo chamber of more rural people who don’t get to the city much apparently. I have a condo in downtown Austin and when I’m there I hardly ever drive my Model 3 sits on its L2 port full up while I uber,Escooter/Ebike,or walk on the downtown urban lifestyle. My primary residence is exurban and its 24-40 miles to the urban areas of at least 4 metros DFW is a conurban we have Denton,Frisco,Addison,North Dallas urban cores, then downtown Dallas and Ft worth cores for dining and social life. Even a 80 mile far exurban to downtown Dallas trip is not stressing a 150 mile EV you have 40% in reserve at least when you get home.

Why 150 miles that’s what cheap as in under $15000 EVs overseas are benchmarked at with sodium ion cells that have 20,000+ cycle lives,retain 90% capacity at -20C, charge at 10C that’s 6 minutes, use sodium salts that cannot burn and sodium is 1000 times more abundant than lithium. When those EVs get to the USA the legacy auto industry is dead or they have to match them. Again we are an urban country 150 mile is plenty once people get used to plugging in every 3 days or so. If you have a garage it takes 30 seconds literally to plug in and go grab a beer from the garage beer fridge on the way into the structure. That said my condo has plugs along the outer walls now for L2 208V charging for residents there is 16 two port plugs for 32 spots in a condo community of 120 units that means once every 4 days if you rotate. That’s 93 miles per day in a Model 3 if you could only charge once every four days...no one in the urban areas drivers 93 miles per day every day seven days a week NO ONE say it again NO ONE. I’m lucky to drive at all when I go to my condo. It’s only there and back for mileage or out to the lakes which are 2 to 15 miles each way. Love me some Austin and the condo pays for itself SXSW and ACL as an Airbnb $$$$ a night every festival Austin has. I go to New York City all the time too at least 6 times a year never bring a car to use there if I drive in from NJ or PN first thing is drop the rental off in midtown and uber to the hotel. Only if I go to my buddies in Bushwick will I keep the rental they have a numbered spot but don’t own a car. We go to long Island with the car when I come up. Same for New Orleans car gets valet at the casino and its all ebike, streetcar or uber. I have done the drive from the French Quarter to Tulane University area...oh hellno took over an hour in creep creep creep gridlock. The streetcar has ROW and took 20 min. Or an Ebike which took 15 min lane split is legal in LA.

Over all point is only flyover people have range issue and anxiety about it the realty is once in a high density urban area range is not important having charge access once a week is all you need. China has this today I have yet to see an apartment or condo in Shanghai that in 2021+ didn’t have L2 charges all along the outer parking spots hundreds of them in big complexes so it can be done. Like I where there is a will there is a way.Austin has the will my condo has 32 spots at 208V single phase they bill directly to your condo fee account its plug and go. Austin also is blanketed with ebikes and stand up scooters cheap,fun and no $20 for parking downtown or entertainment districts. Just put it at the curb and check it back in easy peasy.

Elon has done a great job with chargers, even other EV’s have joined his charging system since they are unable to build enough chargers fast enough.

I used to think like you till I leased a Model 3. I primarily live exurban 40 miles outside of the downtown Dallas core, and 58 miles from Exxon in Irving where I used to go 5 days a week doing a 120 mile per day commute FAR further than the average 40 mile commute in America round trip. My Model 3 is under 2 cents per mile if I had to buy retail power today in Texas my S60 that used to make that commute till it was replaced by the Model 3 would get 25 mpg at best and less in gridlock. At 25mpg and $3.37 its ~14 cents per mile.

Less than 2 vs 14 is SEVEN times cheaper per mile. The payment on the Model 3 is less than the S60 was so from mile zero the Tesla has less capital expense as well. So it’s over all cost per mile is significantly less than the Volvo both being 5 passenger luxury cars. The tech on the Tesla also blows the Volvo away I have FSD in its hands and feet free on gridlock and on the motorway at speed holding a lane.

I have taken the Tesla all the way to Orlando from DFW and take it to Biloxi four or more times a year now. Interstate travel is not an issue at all Tesla blanketed them with superchargers. My has more range than my bladder at 3 hours I’m stopping for a 15 min piss/stretch and now a top up supercharge it puts 80% back in and I’m off for another 3 hour seat time. I could only have the Tesla if I didn’t need to go off road periodically to rig sites or soil sampling. I have an F250 diesel for truck things and it only does truck things it also tows my boat and an RV if I want to rent one and flyfish or hunt and not sleep on dirt did all of that j ever wanted too and more in the service. So yeah I can say with a 99 percentile commute far further than anything average people do even then an EV tesla makes the cut. Irony is Exxon has L2 charger spots in the parking deck I can charge for free saves $3600 a year in fuel costs if I went there all year I don’t I’m a consultant so its when I’m needed. I do take it to Midland and Houston/Austin all the time as in every other week or two. It’s one stop to either Midland or Houston and no stops to Austin door to door. I couldn’t be happier with my Tesla my next one is going to be a Model Y I want the ground clearance I think it will make it off tarmac and park the F250 if not I know a Cybertruck will can’t see the economics of the Cybertruck working out with the sunk cost of the F250 even sold. A model Y would be a fair compromise its efficient enough for daily use and if it can handle 9” or more of runs then it makes it to rigs the few times a year those cheap a$$ companies w/o starlink or vsat real time drilling telemetry. Nearly everyone has real-time sat data now and no need for a ops geo to be on-site.

Elon is right Tesla is not a car company they are a technology company. They are all about what’s next, chargers, fuel cells, AI humanoid robotics. Self driving trucks as in cargo ,the cars are just a bonus the real goal is cargo trucks that drive 24/7 by themselves and only stop every 500 miles to charge for 30 min. They also do solar roofs, off grid battery packs, and rockets plus tunnel drilling too. All Elon and his mad scientist like mind.

Okay, but you are comparing the average EV sedan to an F150.
Which I realize is the most popular automobile.

How much does a Tesla 3 weigh in comparison to Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry?

How much does a F150 or F250 weigh in comparison to a Cyber Truck?
Or how much does a Toyota Tacoma or a Honda Ridgeline weigh in comparison to a Rivian pick up?

You are NOT comparing apples to apples. So to speak.

And communications. Satellites and X.

“How much does a Tesla 3 weigh in comparison to Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry?”

I already posted, twice.

“The heavier the vehicle, the quicker you will go through tires, brakes, rotors, shocks & springs.”

Heavier vehicles have heavier duty components

Often it is the cheaper lighter vehicles that go through parts quicker

“This is why all northern states have road restrictions in the late winter early spring when the frost is coming out of the ground.”

Which states restrict light duty vehicles?

“You are NOT comparing apples to apples. So to speak.”

You said “on average”. On average, the ICE vehicle is heavier than the EV.

“EVs are not paying the highway tax, yet on average do more road damage than the average automobile because their weight.”

FYI, New Hampshire charges more to register EVs.

I go out in the country where there are no chargers when I go far from home. I don’t want to get caught without a way to fill the tank, so to speak.

Like I said, I would be a perfect person for an EV if I could get it cheap. But I am not about to buy a new EV at 63 years old and make payments for 7 years, so I’ll stick to my gasolene cars.

I owner a little Tesla stock and have done well. Elon just keeps on coming up with something interesting to add value to the stock… 😎

How much does a Tesla 3 weigh in comparison to Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry?

Tesla 2wd vs Dual motor long range AWD
3,862 to 4,054 lbs

Toyota Camry
3,450 to 3,682 lbs

The accord is smaller in footprint good luck putting 3 adults in the back seat.

Honda Accord
3,239 to 3,292 lbs

So <200# to 800# difference. What is amazing is that even though it’s 200 to 800 lb heavier its energy use per mile on a BTU to BTU basis is less than the ICE by a good bit.

The power industry rates its plants on heating rate. How many btu to put a kWh to the plant gates.

Natural gas combined-cycle 6,200 —8,000 by/kwh

For distances up too 200km HVAC to the plug is 5% losses the IEA and DOE have the math and studies for this should one want to look.

So adding in 5% transmission losses and 8% plug to pack charging and discharge losses to the inverter inputs. Is 13% more btu than the heating rates above when averaged between the two is 8023 btu per kWh.

My Model 3 needs 180 watt hours to cover a mile with the AC on in normal city traffic not grid lock it gets way lower in gridlock I have seen as low as 80 watts per mile in 5 mph grid lock crawl.

So 1000/180 = 5.5 miles per kWh
That’s 8023 btu over 5.5 miles or 1458
Btu total per mile. Natural gas in this case.

So My identically sized S60 gets 25-28 mpg in similar traffic a whole lot lower in gridlock down to 12 mpg or less.

We have E10 in DFW...

Energy Content (lower heating value) 112,114–116,090 Btu/gal

112,114 btu / 28mpg = 4004 btu per mile nearly four times as much.

How is this possible the ICE heads scream. Simple first law of thermodynamics vs second law.

Natural gas combined cycle run at temps an ICE engine couldn’t dream at running at plus they have a secondary thermal cycle to capture waste heat they have a 60% net thermal efficiency. You only lose 13% of that from the plant gate to the motors of an EVw.

The avg efficiency of a petrol ICE while moving a vehicle at speed is 12.5% and the peak is 25% this alone means the EV will always win on a BTU per mile.

Its zero BTU per mile of the EV is solar powered. Technically no there was energy to make the panels but the energy pay back period for panels in a sunny location is under 6 months and over their 25 year lifespan they will make 50 to 100 times the energy invested in them all in from mining to refined silicon to assembled panels here again the IEA has loads of data to back that up with. So for solar panels with a 50 times EROEI you are negative BTU of burnt fuel by 49 times or more. Here again it’s physics that favors second law electrics vs first law heat processes.

Like I said this is a rural biased echo chamber. I’m 40 miles from Dallas how rural are you? It takes an hour and half to get to central Dallas and I routinely take my Model 3. I could go to downtown Fort Worth and back a 125 mile round trip and not use half the pack in the 3 that’s well farther than anyone in this area would go on a daily basis. I took my 3 last November to the Terlingua chili fest in deep far West Texas that’s 10 hours and 660 miles one way. There was Tesla superchargers all the way down I20 and a supercharger in Alpine Texas which is in the middle of nowhere its so.people in big bend park are within 100 miles of a supercharger. It’s 80 miles from Alpine to Terlingua that was my last 30 min charge to 100%. I drove to the fest and partied for three days all weekend its a small town so once there it was under 2 miles to any event,bar or camp ground/tail gate. The AC and laptops used more pack than the driving I still left with double what I needed to get back to Alpine charged and back down I20 I went with chargers every 50 miles you only need one every 300 miles leaving a 50+ mile buffer in the pack. In short there is nowhere in the whole.state of Texas I couldn’t take my Tesla the charge network is dense enough already for it. I would have had access to 120v and 240v in Terlingua at any of the camp grounds.with 30 or 50 amp plugs the RVs use at a pull up spot. It would have taken 5 hours to 30amp it full on day one.

I could have just used my plug splitter and shared a plug with my buddies RV at his spot set it for 15 amps 240V and left 35 amps for the RV to use continuously. So even in deep far rural ASF West Texas there was charging opportunities. My buddy Evan has taken his Model Y fly fishing with us with a trifuel generator on the hitch for camp power he charged his Y full up off the 50 amp 240V port on that 13,000 watt genset the last night we were there the whole camp didn’t come close to using 13,000 watts and we ran AC window units plus coffee pots and crock pots too.

“All The Dot indians...”. I’m not sure what the Dot reference means in terms of intelligence. All the Indians I know are very smart people, and many of them are wealthy.The average income for ethnic Indians was more than double the average for white Americans in 2022.

I just say it to distinguish from Native American Indians.