Ukraine started this year {2024} on the brink of disaster. A lot has changed since.

Business Insider ^ | September 9, 2024 | Thibault Spirlet

[Cronos]

No one is seeing an “accelerating rate” - not yet at least

[Cronos]

there is zero evidence for any involvement of the statement department.

And 2014 wasn’t a coup - that is clear by the sequence of events.

Finally - Nuland didn’t “pick” the people to install - have you even read the transcripts?

[Cronos]

Regarding Georgia’s request to join NATO in 2008 - that’s a fact

Regarding that this was rejected by France and Germany for “fear of provoking Putin” - that is a fact as well

Regarding that Putin invaded Georgia 6 weeks AFTER the rejection is a fact as well.

The net conclusion is that if Georgia was allowed to join NATO, then Putin would not have invaded is the only logical conclusion

[BroJoeK]

bimboeruption: "(Attention BroJoke: Mine is longer than yours.)"

The difference is that I take a lot of time and care in writing my posts.

bimboeruption: "Full disclosure: As you can plainly see, the source for this article is The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, as opposed to The Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the undisclosed source used by many zeepers."

It took some doing, but I found a link to your article, so I can deal with it directly, it's here.

In my posts I link to any information I think might be challenged, so you can review my sources before you challenge me about them.

bimboeruption: "I'm not defending Russia or Putin in any way. I believe that all views should be presented."

Of course you are defending Russia, it's why you're here, deny that all you wish -- just as turning your back on a murder or rape is effectively supporting the murderer or rapist.

Ukrainian Nazism today: origin and ideological and political typology
Eduard Popov, PhD
Director of the Independent Non-Profit Organisation "Center for Public and Information Cooperation "Europe"

So, I read through your lengthy article, but didn't see a serious argument there.
What it comes down to is that Ukrainian nationalists -- whether socialists or otherwise -- always had to make alliances with whomever would help them achieve independence.
During WWII, those were the very unsavory Nazis, and that's a crying shame.

Of course, the US also made alliances with equally unsavory characters, most notably Joseph Stalin.
So, yes, there's shame for the US in that alliance, but only if you ignore the alternatives.

So, now the good Russian professor Popov wants us to believe that Ukraine today is unduly influenced or controlled by "Nazis", and yet the only evidence I've seen is of Ukrainians honoring WWII freedom fighters, not the Nazism practiced by their allies -- any more than Americans today honor the oppressive Communism practiced by our WWII ally Joseph Stalin.

Indeed, here is a partial list of important Jews in Ukraine's government:

1. Yukhym Zvyahilsky -- Member of Parliament 1990 - 2019, in 1993 - 1994, served as the First Vice Prime Minister and acting Prime Minister.

2. Ihor Kolomoyskyi -- Governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast from 2014 to 20152.

3. Hennadiy Kernes -- Mayor of Kharkiv 2010 - 2020.

4. Volodymyr Groysman -- Ukraine's Prime minister 2016 - 2019.

5. Volodymyr Zelensky -- Ukraine's President since 2019.

Now, considering that Ukraine's Jewish population -- regardless of how you count -- is far less than 1% of the total, the fact that Ukrainians have elected Jewish leaders suggest they are not under some sort of "Nazi" spell.

Additionally, there are actions Ukraine's government itself has taken to combat violent extremism, Nazi or otherwise:

1. Ukraine laws combat hate speech, xenophobia, and extremism.
   
2. Law enforcement agencies act against individuals and groups involved in neo-Nazi activities.
   
3. Ukrainian NGOs and civic groups raise awareness to promote tolerance and warn of extremism.
   
4. Political leaders like Pres. Zelensky publicly condemn neo-Nazi and other extremists.
   
5. There are no known neo-Nazis in positions of significant authority in Ukraine.

Finally, by any serious definition of the word "Nazism" -- "National Socialism" is fascism plus racism, and fascism is authoritarian semi-socialism** -- those words describe authoritarian Russia and it's "Russkiy Mir" racist fantasies far better than they do more democratic Ukraine.

** "semi-socialism", meaning government ownership of some "critical" industries and political control over all economic activity.

[BroJoeK]

Jumper: "There are new reports that Ukraine has lost more soldiers in 2024 so far this year, than they lost in the previous 18-months.
Wow.
We were talking about 500k KIA and 4x WIA.
If ture as they are reporting, Ukraine’s mobilization has failed, not failing...."

In 2023 Ukrainians said their casualty exchange rate was three Russians for every Ukrainian and reported some 400,000 Russian casualties by the end of 2023 -- about 200,000 per year.
From this we can estimate Ukrainian casualties (1/3) at around 140,000 of whom some 35,000 (1/4) were KIA, as of end of 2023.

Now, in 2024 Ukrainians say continuous Russian "Meat Wave" assaults increased average casualty exchange rate to six Russians for every Ukrainian.
So, total Russian casualties, year-to-date reported as around 230,000 -- which is nearly double the rate of previous years.
From this we can estimate Ukrainian 2024 casualties at circa 40,000 year-to-date.
This is roughly the same rate as previous years.

Clearly Ukraine's strategy has been to exchange small areas of Ukrainian territory for very large imbalances in casualty ratios, and that is at least what Ukraine's own numbers show for 2024.
Outside observers have not agreed with a six-to-one ratio of Russian to Ukraine casualties, but neither do they report ratios favorable to Russia.

Jumper: "Schultz of Germany and Jake Sullivan want negotiations now.
Blinken and others want to escalate the war."

Neither Schultz nor Sullivan nor Blinken, nor anybody else I know of has a plan for victory over Russia.

Jumper: "The pentagon has said they do not want missile strikes into Russia because it will change nothing, but instead create future problems for the US around the world in the future when Russia responds.
The US intel community mirrors the pentagon’s assessment that deep strikes into Russia will result in future problems for the US all over the world when Russia strikes back."

All of that is purely Russian propaganda fantasy.
The truth is, Russians are already doing everything they can to make the world miserable, most notably:

• Inciting middle east violence, including Iran, Houthis & Palistinians, and
• Supporting wars in African countries like Mali, CAR & Burkina Faso.

What more Vlad the Invader could do is:

• Convince CCP China's Xi-snake to launch amphibious assaults on Taiwan, and
• Persuade NoKo's Little Kim to launch missile attacks on SoKo and Japan.

So, Xi and Kim are both a little crazy, but neither is yet completely stupid.
Xi's word to Vlad on using nukes is, "don't".

Kerch Bridge to Crimea after attack:

Jumper: "Even the Kurge Bridge in Crimea could not be destroyed by Ukraine which made it an imperative by the end of June 2024... after previous deadlines failed."

Crimea now has two rail lines to supply it --

1. One from Krasnodar in the east, over the Kerch Bridge,
2. The other from Rostov in the north through Mariupol.

Both rail lines seem highly vulnerable, and Kerch was damaged in three separate attacks -- 2022, 2023 and 2024 -- now partially repaired.

There's some speculation on why Ukrainians have not yet destroyed both rail lines -- since the Kerch Bridge alone would change nothing -- and I'd suppose the reasons are a combination of strategic and humanitarian concerns.

Jumper: "There will not be a negotiated solution to the war becasue NEO-Cons will eventually deep strike into Russia... ensuring hostilities around the world for the future.
Leave it to the MIC to make conditions for NEVER-ENDING WARS."

I have no sympathy for Russia's leadership -- zero -- and they deserve whatever evil befalls them now.
But on our side, war without victory is a crime, or should be, and Ukrainians deserve much better than we have done for them so far.

Among the many reasons are Vlad the Invader's "Russkiy Mir" fantasies:

Vladimir Putin awards propagandist Vladimir Solovyov:

Putin's propagandist, Vladimir Solovyov:
"If you think we'll stop at Ukraine, think it through 300 times.
I'll remind you that Ukraine is just an intermediate step in the establishment of the strategic security of the Russian Federation."

Jumper: "WE NEED TRUMP."

Of course, but I highly doubt if a just & permanent peace will come as quick and easily as Trump would like.
I also doubt if Trump will attempt to reward Vlad the Invader's aggressions with great swaths of Ukrainian territory.

But, we'll see.

[BroJoeK]

Jumper: "They own five and want Ukraine out of four of them.
However, to end this war they may need to destroy the other 20 and absorb 15 total.
Maybe a band running from Kiev to Odessa, leaving a Wester Rump state landlocked at the mercy of Poland."

No Russian claim to a square inch of Ukraine's 1991 borders is recognized as legitimate internationally.
The only countries recognizing Vlad's annexation of Crimea are Russian allies & client states of:

1. Belarus
2. Nicaragua
3. North Korea
4. Sudan
5. Syria

Countries recognizing Vlad's pretend Republics of rump-Donetsk and rump-Luhansk are:

1. Nauru (in Micronesia)
2. Nicaragua
3. Russia
4. Syria
5. Venezuela

The other two partially occupied oblasts -- Zaporizhya and Kherson are not recognized as legitimate Russian territory by any nation on earth.

As for what more Russians can or will destroy -- in Eastern Ukraine, Russians advance at the rate of roughly one square mile per day, and a cost of now 1,100 Russian casualties per square mile.
Ukraine's total remaining territory is approximately 200,000 square miles.

So, you can do the math, how long will that take before every living Russian is injured or killed trying to conquer Ukraine?

[BroJoeK]

Night Hides Not: "Today’s US Army is a corrupt shadow of the US military that won WWII and the Cold War."

That will change very quickly under Pres. Trump.

[BroJoeK]

bimboeruption: "Ukraine will run out of soldiers way before Russia.
That is unless Zelensky can sucker NATO countries into sending troops."

Ukraine's eastern strategy is almost 100% defensive, meaning they slowly give up small amounts of land -- roughly one square mile per day -- in exchange for huge numbers of Russian casualties, now up to circa 1,100 per day.

Ukrainians say Russia's "Meat Wave" assaults have increased their casualty ratio to six Russians for every Ukrainian casualty.

But how long either country can keep this up is anybody's guess.

[BroJoeK]

bimboeruption: "And right before our election. Isn't that a coinky dinky?"

Your cartoon below is how Lyndon Johnson defeated Barry Goldwater in 1964.
I remember the "Daisy Girl" add well.
I thought at the time the political ad meant that Pres. Johnson, unlike Sen. Goldwater, was not willing to do what was necessary to win in Vietnam, and time eventually proved that correct:

Results of 1964 election were defeat in 1975:

[Jumper]

TEAM USA, F-Yea! Another Neo-Con cold war mindset. This country is truly in the grip of the DNC MSM.

[BroJoeK]

OldHarbor: "Here’s a Aussie mapper that is Pro -Uke Nazi,even he knows the Ukies are losing."

"Losing" is a matter of definitions.
Arguably, in the US Revolutionary War, the Brits won more battles than they lost up until they lost the war in 1781.

What's certain is, Ukrainians have fought defensively in the Donbas for the past year, while Russians have used "Meat Wave" assaults to gain roughly one square mile per day, at a cost of something like 1,000 Russian casualties per square mile.

Ukrainians say the casualty ratio is now six Russians for every Ukrainian, so a day of 1,200 reported Russian casualties implies about 200 Ukrainians.

Is that winning or losing in the Donbas?

Are Ukrainians winning or losing in Kursk?

[BroJoeK]

ransomnote: "President Trump stated that our STate Department helped overthrow the Ukraine in 2014."

It's true that we did occasionally hear Republicans (i.e., Vivek Ramaswami) blindly repeating Russian propaganda, though not recently, and I've never heard any Republican repeat this particularly insane Russian garbage-talk, much less Donald Trump.

ransomnote: "We have audio of CIA Nuland ‘picking’ the people to install in charge of the government. "

What you heard was a casual conversation among diplomats, the sort of things they all do everyday, it does not suggest she or anyone else "picked" Ukraine's leaders.

LA LA LA

ransomnote: "That’s when Putin annexed territory - to keep NATO off his border.
You just sing LA LA LA louder when this is pointed out."

That "LA LA LA" you're hearing is the sound of Russian propaganda loudspeakers broadcasting their garbage-talk.
The fact is that Ukraine's 2013-2014 Euromaidan protests had nothing to do with military or NATO, and everything to do with economics and the European Union.
NATO was not part of events at all in 2014.

ransomnote: "The West overthrew the Ukraine and built/equipped an army to take on Putin, and provoked until he invaded."

All of that is 100% pure fact-free Russian propaganda nonsense, which no reasonable person believes, much less seriously repeats.

The truth is that after Vlad's 2014 invasion of Ukraine, the West (Obama) did almost nothing to help Ukraine defend itself from aggression, beyond blankets and MREs.
After Vlad's 2022 invasion, then the West stepped up and provided some pretty serious military aid, but never, never enough to actually defeat Russia.
Only just barely enough for Ukraine to avoid losing.

I suspect the West is really afraid of victory in Ukraine and will not do what's necessary to achieve it.

ransomnote: "Let’s not forget the bio warfare labs in the Ukraine..."

That is hilarious crazy talk, nothing serious about it.

ransomnote: "and the DNC, Biden, Schumer, Pelosi crime family activities in the Ukraine, which Zelensky refused to investigate. "

Hunter Biden's Ukraine employment is well known, as was VP Biden's interference and bribery there.
The rest of that is just Russian propaganda.

ransomnote: "The Ukraine is the DNC crime hub, although there are some republican traitors involved there too.
I’m not going to forget the thievery, fraud, child trafficking, organ harvesting, bio warfare lab territory of the Ukraine."

Again, all of that pure 100% fabricated Russian propaganda nonsense.
The reality is that 30 years ago Ukraine's corruption seemed identical to Russia's -- the worst in the world -- since they both came from the Old Soviet culture of corruption.
Today Russia is still what it was back then, but Ukraine has made serious progress in cleaning up its act and is no longer among the world's most corrupt.

So all of this Ukraine corruption talk is just red herrings and straw men intended to divert attention from the only point which really matters -- Russia invaded its neighbors, and that cannot stand, or the world itself will descend into chaos.

ransomnote to cronos: "Your assertion about Georgia Ukraine and NATO negating Putin’s moves is too irrational to bother with. "

Naw... your real problem is that you can't process facts, and the fact is that NATO's 2008 Bucharest summit had nothing to do with Vlad's 2014 invasion of Ukraine.
NATO was not the issue in 2014, the EU was.

Finally, I've posted here before, the one part of all this which lately does seriously worry me is the true story behind Maj. Alexander Vindman.
It potentially could change everything:

[BroJoeK]

bimboeruption: "In August, 1939, Germany and the Soviet Union signed a non-aggression pact known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which secretly carved up the land between their borders.
Shortly after Germany invaded Poland and the Soviet Union attacked Poland. starting the war."

How the Second World War in Europe started, August 1939 Hitler-Stalin Alliance:

bimboeruption: "Hate Putin all you want, but don’t ignore the fact that the Soviets won WW2 in Europe."

Well, first, Putin had nothing to do with WWII, and second, there's no doubting that Russians suffered incredibly for Stalin's insane alliance with Hitler in 1939.
Estimates are circa 27 million Soviet deaths, or 14% of its population, half of those civilians.

But most important, the Old Soviets didn't fight and win that war by themselves, Stalin got enormous help from the US and UK:

1. $11 billion in US aid, equivalent to circa $3 trillion today.
   In today's equivalents, WWII cost us circa $50 trillion plus lives lost and shattered.
   Think about that in relation to the cost of supporting Ukraine today.

2. $2 billion in British aid, equivalent to circa $500 billion today.

3. Multiple 2nd, 3rd and other fronts which kept Germans and Japanese from attacking the Old Soviet Union:
   • Balkans, Greece and Crete - 1941 consumed some of Hitler's best units (especially airborne) just months before invading the USSR in June.

   • African theater 1941 - 1943, enough distractions to prevent German victories at Moscow (1941) and Stalingrad (1942).

   • Pacific Theater 1941 - 1945 prevented the Japanese from even thinking about invading the USSR in the East.

   • Italian Theater 1943-1945 kept nearly 2 million Italian and German forces in Italy and away from Germany's Eastern Front.

   • Allied Normandy Invasions 1944-1945 kept at least 1/3 of German forces occupied in Western Europe and off the Eastern Front with the Soviet Union.

   • Allied Air Campaigns 1940 - 1945 kept well over half of German air forces and air defenses in Germany and off the Eastern Front with Stalin.
     They also caused some damage to German war production, especially in the war's final years.

World War II, circa 1942:

[dfwgator]

Stalin wanted the higher death count so he could use it as a bargaining chip. “We lost 20 million, so we deserve half of Europe!”

Stalin got mad when the US/Britain tried to make a deal with the Germans late in the war, in order to get them to surrender in the West, so that it would save lives of US and British and German troops and civilians.

Stalin wanted the max possible death count on all sides.

[BroJoeK]

"Mr. Republican", isolationist Ohio Sen. Taft:

Jumper: "TEAM USA, F-Yea!
Another Neo-Con cold war mindset.
This country is truly in the grip of the DNC MSM."

Now again you're just babbling insanely since:

1. Your "TEAM USA" is and always will be the best team ever, in the history of the world.
   So, there's no shame in being for your "TEAM USA".

2. Cold War I was launched by Soviet aggressions after 1945.
   Cold War II was launched by Vlad the Invader's aggressions in Ukraine and other countries especially in 2022.

3. Cold War I caused previously conservative isolationist Republicans, notably Ohio Senator Robert Taft -- then called "Mr. Republican" -- to support Republican Pres. Eisenhower's global efforts, including NATO, to oppose and contain International Communist aggressions.

   "Mr. Conservative" Arizona Sen. Goldwater:

   

4. In Cold War I, "Mr. Conservative", Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater was defeated in the election of 1964 largely because he was too strong in opposition to Russian aggressions and so Pres. Johnson convinced Americans that Goldwater would start a nuclear war!

5. In Cold War I, the "I hate America" anti-warriors were all long-haired hippy type communist freak Democrats, not good people claiming to be traditional conservative Republicans.

1960s hate America, "Make Love Not War" were Leftist Democrats, not conservatives or Republicans. They defeated us in Vietnam and elsewhere.

[ransomnote]

BroJoeK,
I skimmed your word salad and decided not to read through it after seeing your insistence that the Ukrainians were killing 3 Russians for every 1 soldier their side lost. You keep repeating this kind of ridiculous comment over and over - no need for me to bother reading the rest.

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

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4. Japan Just Dealt Russia a DEVASTATING Blow!
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“In this video, we explore Japan’s growing role in opposing Russia during the Ukraine conflict. Japan, once hesitant to engage directly in foreign conflicts, is now a key financial supporter of Ukraine, providing billions in aid.

We’ll cover the latest blow Japan has dealt to Russia with a new investment treaty, examine its long-standing tensions over the Northern Territories, and question whether Japan may soon escalate its involvement by providing military aid. Watch to understand Japan’s evolving stance against Putin.

[BroJoeK]

dfwgator: "Stalin got mad when the US/Britain tried to make a deal with the Germans late in the war, in order to get them to surrender in the West, so that it would save lives of US and British and German troops and civilians."

Nooooo.... not really.
Sure, Germans wanted to surrender in their West and keep fighting Soviets in the East.
I can think of at least twice when they offered that deal to Western Allies.

And for sure, Stalin was paranoid and willing to believe anything suspicious, so he accused his allies of whatever he feared.

However, I've never seen evidence that any western leader seriously considered German offers for "western only" surrenders.

Now, if you wish to discuss Operation Unthinkable, we can, but that was planned after German surrender, not before.

[Allegra]

I thought Denys Davidov was verboten on FR. 🤔

[bimboeruption]

>>>>1. Update from Ukraine | Amazing! Ruzzian Army Fell for the Trap in Kursk and up to be Encircled
Denys Davydov
860K subscribers
9-15-2023 12:05 a.m. EDT
Minutes 28:04<<<<

__________________________________

Looks like you're back on Draft Dodging Denys' payroll, mommy.