Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

War or Peace? Towards a Ukrainian Peace or a Direct NATO-Russian War
Sott ^ | 28 June 25 | Gordon Han

Posted on 06/30/2024 11:21:19 AM PDT by delta7

Introduction

The following is an overview of the recent events and present state of the NATO-Russia Ukrainian War. We observe movement towards the end of the conflict in its present configuration and in two new directions simultaneously — a race to the final resolution of the NATO-Russia question. One direction consists of movement towards peace negotiations. The other is toward escalation into a open, direct NATO-Russia war likely to expand beyond the borders of Ukraine and far western regions of Russia. The race to resolution is on and it remains anyone's guess whether peace or greater war will win the day.

Russia Proposes Diplomacy...Again

On June 14 Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed a roadmap for ending the NATO-Russia Ukrainian War during a speech at Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He called the "Ukrainian crisis" "a tragedy for us all" and the result not of a Russo-Ukrainian conflict per se but "of the aggressive, cavalier, and absolutely adventurous policy that the West has pursued and is pursuing." He proposed what he called "a real peace proposal" for establishing a permanent end to the Ukrainian conflict and war rather than a ceasefire. Putin based his proposal on principles he has reiterated numerous times, most of which were agreed upon by Kiev and Moscow in Istanbul in March-April 2022; a process scuttled by Washington, London, and Brussels. In particular, he has now offered "simple" conditions for the "beginning of discussions." They include: the full withdrawal of all Ukrainian troops from Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporozhia oblasts as they existed as of 1991 — that is, Russia would receive all the oblasts' territories not just those now controlled by Russian troops. Immediately upon agreeing to this condition and a second requiring Kiev's rejection of any NATO membership (Ukraine's "neutral, non-bloc, non-nuclear status"), from the Russian side "immediately, literally the same minute there will follow an order to cease fire and begin negotiations" and Moscow "will guarantee the unhindered and safe withdrawal" of Ukrainian units. However, he expressed "huge doubts" that the West would allow Kiev to agree to this. If his offer is rejected, Putin emphasized that all future blood-letting in Ukraine would be the West's and Kiev's "political and moral responsibility" and that Kiev's negotiating position would only deteriorate as its troops' position at the front.

To be sure, Putin's offer was not made under the illusion that it would be taken up within the next few months and was certainly another effort to lay blame for the conflict at Washington's, Brussels and, less so perhaps, Kiev's doors. Nevertheless, Putin's public offering before Russia's Foreign Ministry personnel is a most authoritative and official statement of a specific proposal from Russia; one that included paths to both a ceasefire and permanent peace, if Washington and/or Kiev choose to take them as Ukraine continues to crumble at the front, in the political sphere, and economically throughout this year. The pressure from the Western and Ukrainian publics to negotiate with Moscow will continue to mount through the U.S. presidential elections, as Ukraine deteriorates and the risk of direct, open, full-scale NATO-Russia war grows. It is possible that if US intelligence concludes and reports to the White House that the Ukrainian front and/or army and/or regime will collapse before the November elections, then the Biden administration may be moved to open talks or force the Ukrainians to do so.

Putin's territorial demands are not likely to be static, as the territorial configuration changes rapidly on the ground. Russia seizes more territories beyond the four oblasts and Crimea, and the negotiating algorithm changes. Thus, the seizure of areas in Sumy and Kharkiv may not just be an attempt to begin establishing a broad 'buffer zone' to move more Ukrainian artillery and drones out of range. The Sumy, Kharkiv, and areas near, say, areas of Nikolaev and Odessa in the south can serve as trading cards to entice acquiescence to talks, as long as Russia makes no claims on those territories. In other words, the Ukrainians could have inferred and were perhaps supposed to infer that they could demand a request for the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from Sumy and Kharkiv simultaneously with Kiev's withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from the four Novorossiyan regions. The incursions into Sumy and Kharkiv in May might reflect preparation then already for Putin's official reiteration of the peace proposal in June. Putin's call for Ukrainian withdrawal from the four noted 'Novorossiya' regions implies the 'return' of any and all other areas occupied by Russian troops. Continued refusal to talk with Moscow and any further Russian gains give Putin flexibility in enticing or threatening Washington, Brussels, and/or Kiev to the negotiating table. Refuse talks and lose non-Novorossiyan lands; accept talks and Kiev gets them back.

Also, both subjectively (with Putin's intent) and objectively (without Putin's intent) the proposal undermined Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskiy's 'disnamed' 'peace summit' in Switzerland which was nothing other than an exercise in rallying support among supporters for the beleaguered Maidan regime. Tied to this issue is the Russian president's assertions in the speech both Zelenskiy and the Maidan regime are illegitimate. Putin got mired down in some self-contradictions here. His assertion that the Maidan regime is illegitimate, since it came to power by an illegal "armed putch" - an absolutely correct one - contradicts his other claim that only Ukraine's parliament or Supreme Rada is now a legitimate authority and representative of the Ukrainian people. According to Putin, Zelenskiy is not Ukraine's legitimate authority according to the Ukrainian constitution and thus the Rada is, because Zelenskiy's first five-year term expired without his being re-elected, but this is a plausible but debatable conclusion regarding a now extremely complicated legal issue. The key point here is that if the Maidan regime that arrived in power in February 2014 by way of an illegal coup is illegitimate, then the organs of power elected under it are equally as illegitimate, putting aside the issue of creeping legitimization by time (still too early) and international recognition. Indeed, it was a decision of the Rada on 21 February 2014 ostensibly impeaching the already overthrown (for all intents and purposes) President Viktor Yanukovych, without a quorum moreover, that gave a quasi-legal veneer of legitimacy to the Maidan coup, as Putin himself notes in his June speech.

However, it should be noted that Putin's raising of this issue is probably less driven by legalities than politics. Putin may be trying to drive a wedge between parliament and the Office of the President in order to strengthen any coup d'etat being planned in the wings by those such as former president Petro Poroshenko and former Chief of the General Staff Valeriy Zaluzhniy. In Putin's interpretation of Ukraine's "unique juridicial situation" as well as that of some Ukrainians, Poroshenko's or Zaluzhniy's legitimacy to rule is no less and indeed greater than that of Zelenskiy's own.

It appears that Zelenskiy's increasingly weak position at home, which I have discussed numerous times elsewhere, declining support for Ukraine abroad and most importantly in the U.S., Ukrainian forces' dire situation all along the front and in the rear (lack of men and weapons to fight), the threat of a Russian summer offensive (see below), and Putin's June proposals had their effect. As Zelenskiy arrived in Brussels on the eve of the NATO summit in Washington DC, a series of events confirmed the likelihood that Putin's speech reflected developments in secret US-Russian talks, and Zelenskiy suddenly moved to suggest Kiev prepare. In the days prior, US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin telephoned Russian Defense Minister Andrei Belousov and supposedly discussed measures to prevent a US-Russian clash that could lead to war likely motivated by the ATACMs attack on Crimea that killed some ten beach-goers, including children, and wounded some 40. It seems almost certain that there was some discussion of negotiations on war and peace. This was followed by rumors that a Russian plane had departed to Washington DC on June 25th. Now, just days later, Zelenskiy said in Brussels that Kiev "must put a settlement plan on the table within a few months." This followed a statement weeks earlier by Ukraine Foreign Minister Dmitro Kuleba and Office of the President Andriy Yermak that the next Ukrainian peace summit following the failure of early June's session should lead to a peace agreement and include Russia directly or indirectly for the first time and lead to a peace agreement. This confirms my sense that the Ukrainian war will end one way or the other this year unless NATO intervenes directly with troops on the ground.

Moscow's Military Plans: Reject Talks and War You Shall Have

Moscow's military plans for the remainder of the year can be summed up as continuity in Ukraine and preparations for war beyond Ukraine against the West. Thus, in Ukraine Russia will continue its more offensive strategy of 'attrit and advance' upgraded from, an intensification of what Alexander Mercouris calls 'aggressive attrition'. Under attrit and advance, Russian forces still emphasize destruction of Ukraine's armed forces over the taking and holding of new territory. The attrition of massive, combined air, artillery, missile, and drone war supersedes the advances on the ground by armor and infantry in this strategy. Thus, territorial advance is slow, but personnel losses are fewer.….more….


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bloggers; fakenews; war
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-33 next last
Yep! Just like senile Joe’s Afghanistan and Covid vax hoax debacle, his Ukie war will go down in history as the first domino to fall……

Post war analysis will be chilling.

1 posted on 06/30/2024 11:21:19 AM PDT by delta7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: delta7

Any solution to the war in Ukraine is on hold until Trump wins in November.
He will end the war before he takes office.
For sure, and they all know this.


2 posted on 06/30/2024 11:28:03 AM PDT by Thapsus_epiphany (Socialism is a prison, Communism is a death camp )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7

Biden expiring before our very eyes last Thursday brings this FJB Marxist Junta MIC NATO proxy war to an end in-situ.

Russia will grab a few final goodies, maybe Odessa? before Trump steps in and ends it all.


3 posted on 06/30/2024 11:49:53 AM PDT by FlyingEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7

A helluva cudgel to protect their enclave in ukeland.

It’ll work, too.


4 posted on 06/30/2024 12:14:53 PM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7

China just transferred or provided Russia with the first Y20A Transport Plane a few hours ago.*

*Looks likes sacntions on aircraft are now broken.

A like to this beast similar to the C5A Galaxy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ddKA-nRwk


5 posted on 06/30/2024 12:21:57 PM PDT by Jumper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7

Zelenski is the man without a home and has been that way since his departure over 30 days ago form Ukraine. The Ghost of Kiev;)


6 posted on 06/30/2024 12:22:58 PM PDT by Jumper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7

As soon as Russia returns behind its international borders of 2012 all will be well and peace will rein.


7 posted on 06/30/2024 12:26:51 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7

It’s probably worth noting that if the Neocons had accepted Putin’s offer, chances are that Putin would have been kicked out of office, due to accepting too little for all the effort and lives already expended there. And isn’t their dream to oust Putin from power?

Funny how the Neocons ALWAYS manage to look a gift-horse in the mouth.


8 posted on 06/30/2024 12:34:42 PM PDT by BobL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PIF
As soon as Russia returns behind its international borders of 2012 all will be well and peace will rein.

As soon as Vicky Nuland, the deep state, MIC and NATO undo the 2014 Maidan rebellion coup all will be well and peace will rein.

9 posted on 06/30/2024 12:45:43 PM PDT by CapandBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Thapsus_epiphany
Any solution to the war in Ukraine is on hold until Trump wins in November. He will end the war before he takes office. For sure, and they all know this.

The Ukrainian Army needs to hold on to their 620-mile front in Ukraine. It's likely the Russians will make two more pushes, one during the summer and the last one before the ceasefire by early 2025.

10 posted on 06/30/2024 12:49:38 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: PIF
I wasted time and bandwidth reading this? A wordy recapitulation of GRU/Putin talking points from an obscure conspiracy "news" site is the best the Russian sycophancy can do on a Sunday?

I demand compensation!

11 posted on 06/30/2024 1:13:37 PM PDT by Chad C. Mulligan (Your insults are my rocket fuel. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: PIF
You're as delusional as Zelensky is.
12 posted on 06/30/2024 1:17:28 PM PDT by McGruff (Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up - Barack Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican
......It's likely the Russians will make two more pushes, one during the summer and the last one before the ceasefire by early 2025.

Steal as much as they can, then give back 10% and say "See? We made a concession".

13 posted on 06/30/2024 1:18:01 PM PDT by Chad C. Mulligan (Your insults are my rocket fuel. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Chad C. Mulligan
The Russians are not capable of seizing much territory through their offensives.

If they're lucky, they may seize the equivalent of Manhattan by early 2025.

The West will continue to pour in weapons so the lines will continue to hold for the Ukrainians.

14 posted on 06/30/2024 1:23:12 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: delta7

Presidental elections must precede any peace deal. Ukrainians get to vote on who they want leading the negotiations.


15 posted on 06/30/2024 1:23:15 PM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delta7
most of which were agreed upon by Kiev and Moscow in Istanbul in March-April 2022

Complete bs. Polish Foreign Minister who helped transport the Ukraine delegation said:

Jakub Kumoch reveals the backstage of the negotiations. Russia did not want peace, only the capitulation of UkraineRussia did not want peace, only the capitulation of Ukraine.

Jakub Kumoch, former Secretary of State of President Andrzej Duda, who accompanied the Ukrainian delegation to negotiations with Russia in Belarus and Turkey in the spring of 2022, told the newspaper The Polish Times.

Let us call it mildly: singularly. It was a draft with the comments of both sides. The document was clearly prepared before the Russian invasion and by the Russians. He provided, among other things, the recognition of the annexation of Crimea, the so-called independence of the eastern regions of Ukraine, the reduction of the size of the Ukrainian army, bilingualism, the ban on joining NATO, perpetual neutrality, etc. There were also purely demeaning elements, such as a commitment to denazification or the introduction of the Great Patriotic War, as the Russians call their contribution to World War II. Things that A State never imposes on State B. Meanwhile, Russia has brought in the entire list of laws that Ukraine is to change. It began with the Constitution.

https://i.pl/jakub-kumoch-ujawnia-kulisy-negocjacji-rosja-nie-chciala-pokoju-tylko-kapitulacji-ukrainy/ar/c1p2-26324503


16 posted on 06/30/2024 1:25:42 PM PDT by tlozo ( Trump: "As everyone agrees, Ukraine Survival and Strength...is also important to us!" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CapandBall
As soon as Vicky Nuland, the deep state, MIC and NATO undo the 2014 Maidan rebellion coup all will be well and peace will rein.

Yup, Spain once had a coup, therefore all subsequent free and fair elections to the present day are null and void. Makes sense

17 posted on 06/30/2024 1:30:25 PM PDT by tlozo ( Trump: "As everyone agrees, Ukraine Survival and Strength...is also important to us!" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Thapsus_epiphany

When Trump was President, oil was cheap, and war is expensive.


18 posted on 06/30/2024 1:49:18 PM PDT by Daveinyork
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: FlyingEagle

If I was Xi, I would be planning on expanding China’s borders to the west.


19 posted on 06/30/2024 1:55:24 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (The only good commie is one that's dead - Country Joe McDonald )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: PIF

Pollyanna stupid on a Sunday afternoon.
Sun is a blazin’ rainbow skittles.

“As soon as Russia returns behind its international borders of 2012 all will be well and peace will rein.”


20 posted on 06/30/2024 2:05:15 PM PDT by Right Brigade (It was better before they voted for whats his name,this must be the New World)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-33 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson