Posted on 06/17/2024 3:03:51 AM PDT by tlozo
Russia did not want peace, only the capitulation of Ukraine. Jakub Kumoch, former Secretary of State of President Andrzej Duda, who accompanied the Ukrainian delegation to negotiations with Russia in Belarus and Turkey in the spring of 2022, told the newspaper The Polish Times. The Introduction
- That negotiations were a dead end. Moscow did not want a lasting peace - this is how Jakub Kumoch says about the backstage negotiations between Ukraine and Russia in the spring of 2022. Today he is the ambassador of the Republic of Poland to China, in 2022 he is the Secretary of State of President Andrzej Duda and was responsible for creating Polish policy towards Ukraine.
It was the Ukrainian authorities who asked the Polish side in the spring of 2022 to transport its delegation to Belarus, where meetings of Russian and Ukrainian negotiators were held.
The Polish diplomat is straightening the message from the Western media that at that time it was close to peace, only the Ukrainian side broke the negotiations. According to Kumocha, it was Moscow from the beginning that was not intended to bring peace, all she wanted was the capitulation of Ukraine.
Jakub Kumoch reveals to us in an interview for the first time some conversations, describes the situations, fragments of documents from that time, those that he can reveal.
What did this document look like?
Let us call it mildly: singularly. It was a draft with the comments of both sides. The document was clearly prepared before the Russian invasion and by the Russians. He provided, among other things, the recognition of the annexation of Crimea, the so-called independence of the eastern regions of Ukraine, the reduction of the size of the Ukrainian army, bilingualism, the ban on joining NATO, perpetual neutrality, etc. There were also purely demeaning elements, such as a commitment to denazification or the introduction of the Great Patriotic War, as the Russians call their contribution to World War II. Things that A State never imposes on State B. Meanwhile, Russia has brought in the entire list of laws that Ukraine is to change. It began with the Constitution.
All this anger and nastiness of yours came out of nowhere and is passionate and persistent, it is bizarre.
I do not support what has caused this conflict to happen. It happened because our government did a color revolution that ended with a coup d'état o f the sitting Ukrainian president. even worse they used the same tactics to pill a coup d'état against the sitting U.S. president with the 2020 election theft.
Yet you ignorant people refuse to accept that helping Ukraine is in fact helping these criminals, and yo refuse to wake up, because you reject the evidence that is available, but refuse to accept the evidence.
You keep insisting that Putin wants to take all of Europe, which is utter nonsense, and that nonsense is pure propaganda, but you repeat i as being true.
Listen, Europe is killing itself, and it is being done by their own leaders who encourage & support massive uncontrolled immigration.
You supporters of Ukraine, have no clue what you are supporting.
I should return that wow right back at you, as you haven't a clue as to what is going on.
Anyway, I am wasting my time even trying to communicate with you like an adult, because you believe you know everything, but it's quite apparent that you are as clueless as a new born baby.
Wow, you didn’t even read that post accurately.
Can someone please show me how this is Ukraine’s fault and how this justifies a Russian invasion? Can someone point me to one good faith discussion of this?
Okay, then state it ,more succinctly then. Don’t beat around the bush./ In other words tell me what I read wrong and what you were trying to say.
Distance between
Latvia is also closer to BOTH Moscow and St. Petersburg than kyiv
That shows that your first statement is wrong
Muscowy already captured a buffer zone in 2014 with its capture of the Donetsk People's republic and the Luhansk people's republic
It already had the frozen conflict in 2015.
Heck - in 2013 it already had a country that was not going to get into NATO by any means (France and Germany were ever ready to veto)
So the entire "Russia under threat" is another putinist lie that doesn't survive the full light of day
And what happened when Germany and France heard that and VETOED Georgia and Ukraine's applications to join NATO?
Muscowy invaded Georgia 6 weeks after the REJECTION - so that is another Putin lie - if Georgia's application had been accepted then Putin would not have invaded
err.. what????
have you ever looked at a map?
You see that marking there "Russia"?
There already were nukes in Kaliningrad - further west than Belarus
The bear is the one that invaded Georgia and Ukraine. And the decrepit bear showed no restraint - bombing civilians (white Eastern Orthodox Eastern Slavs) from day 1
Firstly - are YOU doing that? if you were, then you would tell Putin to vacate the parts of Ukraine he occupies.
Ukrainians protested Yanukovych not fulfilling his campaign promises of closer economic ties to the EU as they had the right to do under the Ukrainian Constitution. He ordered that the police open fire on them. 108 Ukrainians were killed. Then scared to death about what he had done he fled the country with a big percentage of the Ukrainian treasury. He abandoned his job. The next day the Parliament voted to remove him from office, as the law allowed. It wasn’t a coup, the man abandoned his job. Three months later the people of the country held an election and elected someone who was willing to show up.
Yanukovych, a russian puppet, ran away whilst he was still President and relinquished his role, never returning to Ukraine.
Yanukovich could have stayed, he could have plead his case. He could have made the public arguement for why he did what he did. He didn’t do that though. Instead he burned a bunch of documents, packed a suitcase full of cash and fled in the middle of the night.
There was no armed uprising
There was no fifth column.
There wasn’t even a singular political leader who opposed him who stepped into his role. Ukraine had a short lived provisional government until a new election was held. Their constitution was never suspended
Ukraine, like every other democracy, has acts in place that deal with an absent leader and enacted them accordingly.
Russia decided to call this a coup in an effort to de-legitimise the Ukrainian government because it objected to the removal of its puppet. It did not like the idea of a free democratic nation on its border.
Now try and provide the distance from the borders. It's not like the weapons need to be fired from places removed from the borders, especially that far removed. We have also not put any nuclear arsenal in Finland, but we certainly would in Ukraine.
Latvia is also closer to BOTH Moscow and St. Petersburg than kyiv
Latvia is insignificant.
But the main point you still miss is that when you add in all of these borders that creates quite a significant area along Russia's western border.
Image a force as strong as the U.S. coupled with other European nations, arrayed along either of our borders, who openly talk about the destruction of the U.S.
You really do try to muddy the water with stupid facts that are not even close in comparison.. In addition, you constantly try to make it seem like Russia is the same entity as the USSR., when that too is hogwash.
The fact that Russia faces belligerence from a powerful world power, along with other nation aligned with the U.S. is all that matters. Couple that with the reality that these entireties were unwilling to work with Russia to allay those concerns, and you have the recipe for confrontation that has the potential to turn very dangerous very quickly since it would be two heavily armed nuclear powers involved.
Did we really need to bring Ukraine into NATO?
Even discussing it only made tensions rise. All completely unnecessary. Beyond that though, it's extremely evil to put Ukraine in a position of danger for no valid reason whatsoever.
You argue stupid little points, but all of these points only points to the fact that this was started by the needless worthless push to expand NATO, for no appreciable gains, but plenty of potential loss, and that loss is no longer a potential, it's a reality.
You support evil. God help your soul.
A coup d’état is the sudden, violent overthrow of an existing government or leader by a small group, typically involving control of the armed forces, police, and other military elements. Unlike a revolution, which is usually achieved by large numbers of people working for basic social, economic, and political change, a coup is a change in power from the top that merely results in the abrupt replacement of leading government personnel.
Are you trying to clam that there was a peaceful transition from Viktor Yanukovych to Petro Poroshenko?
Ukraine's former PM rallies protesters after Yanukovych flees Kiev
"we" certainly would not if Putin hadn't invaded for the second time in 2022
Yes, I have not advocating for either side. I have since day one been calling for a peaceful resolution, and if Ukraine wasn't willing to seek a peaceful resolution that we do not need to become involved in another long protracted war against Russia.
But I also speak the truth, that my country, the U.S. has played an evil role in this, starting with Obama, and continued under Biden. That Obama is in his third term and that Biden is just the face of this administration, but is not this nation's president.
I have explained that this conflict was very avoidable, because it stemmed completely from NATO expansion. NATO ws created to safeguard Europe from the USSR. When the USSR fell, it would have been better to create a new alliance that included Russia, and bringing them into the fold just like was had Germany, Italy & Japan, and reconstitute NATO into a broader coalition of nations stating supporting freedom.
Imagine what the world would look like had we followed that tactic instead of continuing to antagonize Russia and making it the pariah to be the go to villain.
There you go again, making statements that there is no way you can back up, yet you state them as facts. I am using logical deductions, because there was no reason to make Ukraine a NATO member, other than its long border on the Russian western border. We have been demonizing Russia & Putin, long before he ever invaded any nation. In addition, they built several bioweapons labs in Ukraine. They initially denied their existence, but finally had to admit that they do in fact exist.
So, oh yes we would have.
You really are sleeping walking the world into a nuclear confrontation.
Wake up, and start paying attention to what the WEF, the UN and other globalist organizational creations are saying & planning. They are responsible for the chaos that has enveloped this world. That is the real threat.
The distance from the borders?
Latvia and Finland are far closer to Muscowy’s CORE than Ukraine is.
Latvia has been a NATO country since 2004 and no threat to Muscowy.
Russia does not “face belligerence” - it created that belligerence by invading its neighbors starting in 2008.
By your definition, Germany was facing belligerence from the UK and France in 1939....
if you support Putin in 2024, it’s the same as supporting pencil-brush moustache in 1939
however, if you look at YOUR definition - , a coup is when a group of armed people (military or just a crowd of armed guys, domestic or foreign, or both) seizing government buildings to install their government or make existing government work at gunpoint
This is exactly what happened back in 2014 in Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk. Local rebels and Russian military (openly in Crimea, posing as locals in Donbas) violently overthrew Ukrainian rule and put in Muscowite frozen statelets
What happened in Kyiv though was mass protests.
At night, a few hundred protestors, mainly students, were beaten by the infamous Berkut. The next day hundreds of thousands demanded the resignation of the minister of internal affairs.
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