Posted on 05/12/2024 4:30:37 AM PDT by hardspunned
Several German Bundestag members have approved the idea of Western “cross-border” anti-aircraft units shooting down Russian missiles over Ukraine, according to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper.
“This would relieve the burden on Ukrainian air defenses and allow them to protect the front line,” Roderich Kiesewetter of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) argued.
He referred to the US, the UK and France helping Israel repulse Iran’s massive missile attack in April, which Kiesewetter claimed shows that “the involved states do not necessarily have to become ‘warring parties’ to a conflict.”
(Excerpt) Read more at x.com ...
We brag that we know where all of them are. I doubt they know where all of ours are. But you are never sure and that’s the rub. And the problem isn’t just SSBNs now. Today anything with a torpedo tube can launch a nuke cruise missile. So no, it’s not a matter of we know where all their subs are and in one perfectly coordinated moment sink them all simultaneously.
And you are correct, a single missile can utterly devastate most nations. A single sub can utterly obliterate any nation on earth.
In any case, look at the big picture of the questions you propose. Declaring and thinking you can enforce a no fly zone in Russia, can we sink all of their nuclear subs before they can launch? Why should we be taking such deranged risks that would have thrown Kissinger into catatonic shock on behalf of Azov Ukraine?
And the bigger pickle is how you stop everything else. So you shoot down missile launching planes in Russia and sink their subs... how do you stop ICBMs on a FOBS system with hypersonics? How do you stop regular ICBMS? How do you stop a standard MiG or Suhkoi fighter from delivering a gravity nuke on London or Berlin?
As the old Provo IRA used to say when the British stopped a bombing or assassination attempt, “congratulations, but remember. You have to get it right every time, we only have to get it right once”.
This is a pointless game with no US or EU national interest beyond power, money and conquest.
You should read Herman Kahn “On Thermonuclear War”. He’s basically the inspiration behind most of the ideas in Dr. Strangelove. And at the moment, we are racing up his “escalation ladder”.
The only thing that might save us from pushing this to all out nuclear war, is the Russians deciding they can hold tight a bit longer and watch our complete economic collapse. If we fall into a great depression or worse, that could take us off the world stage in a big way.
But who knows? I’m just glad I do not live anywhere near Sodom on the Potomac.
True. Can’t imagine what it is, but we have more debt than anyone in all of human history. We have flooded in 15 million illegals. Our cities are crime ridden cesspools. A majority of the under 40 crowd despises America. Insanely, farming and energy production are under vicious attack. Free speech is hated by a solid third of the nation.
Something wicked this way comes. Have all the beans and rice you are gonna need. Maybe we go Venezuela, maybe we go violent like the Balkans, or maybe we go Argentina dirty war. Or maybe we just get a grinding depression like we’ve never imagined.
But something very bad is headed our way. A blind man can see it.
Ukraine ping
hardspunned: [Oh yeah, totally the same. The Russians had 750,000 troops within 100 miles of the US forces, the U.S. weaponry had just killed 75,000 Russian troops and Russia was maneuvering their 1000 tactical nukes in Vietnam and threatening to launch attacks on London and Paris. Yeah, this is the same deal! Stop with the comedy. This is serious business.]
Putin won’t nuke the West because if he does, we will kill him, his family, all of his friends and all of their families, as well as all of Russia. There’s no coming back from that. Russia can recover from foreign conquest, as it did from the Mongols. It will never recover from physical extermination.
And he won’t attack the West conventionally because it would invite not only defeat in Ukraine, but also the destruction of his conventional forces in Russia proper. The US has plenty of air assets in Europe to deliver ordnance against Russian targets on Russian soil. Putin’s not going to give the US the excuse it needs to start flattening Russian air bases and supply nodes.
Ukraine ping
Desertrhino: [Very different in several ways. One, that was the USSR was a very different entity than Russia. And the war was a proxy war 6000 miles from either of our homes.
Second, this time our proxies are having Brit technicians shoot missiles at targets inside Russia proper. NATO (quit pretending it’s the idiot Ukes) has hit one of their strategic missile radars deep inside Russia. That’s equivalent to someone hitting our DEW radars.
They have hit their Engels nuclear bomber base in Saratov. They have attacked the Kerch Bridge and the German Air Force was just caught on an open zoom call discussing their plans to use German missiles, fired by Germans, to hit Kerch again. The Moskva cruiser sinking was US P-8 Poseidons doing the targeting for British missile crews to conduct an over the horizon attack.
For your analogy to work about Vietnam, Russia would have had to be hitting our DEW line in Alaska, maybe hitting Barksdale and Minot airbases, sinking a US ship in international waters etc.
It’s a foolish game we are playing, and for nothing except globalist power games on behalf of a resurgent nazi country...and of course, our leaders are getting enriched.
This is nothing like Vietnam. And last but not least. The leaders we had then, as bad as they could be, were all light years smarter than ours today.
You put Biden, Sullivan, and Nuland against Nixon, McNamara, and Kissinger? Put any leader today against childless Macron, childless Boris Johnson, Childless Olaf Sholtz, senile Joe Biden, etc.
No comparison.
These clowns are horny for war. They have wanted war with Russia for two decades at least. And now the EU gnats think they are going to be able to take the Russians down.
They have successfully got us into a new cold war at the moment our economy is collapsing. And these clowns could actually miscalculate and get nuked. They won’t stop until forced to.]
Putin won’t nuke the West because if he does, we will kill him, his family, all of his friends and all of their families, as well as all of Russia. There’s no coming back from that. Russia can recover from foreign conquest, as it did from the Mongols. It will never recover from physical extermination.
And he won’t attack the West conventionally because it would invite not only defeat in Ukraine, but also the destruction of his conventional forces in Russia proper. The US has plenty of air assets in Europe to deliver ordnance against Russian targets on Russian soil. Putin’s not going to give the US the excuse it needs to start flattening Russian air bases and supply nodes.
Also known as mutually assured destruction, without all the psychotic imagery.
Keyword is mutual, dummy.
“It seems European leaders want to get into this fight.”
They want it so bad it’s amazing. And it’s hard to see why. They are broke, have very little industrial capacity left, have a decades old pacifist population and joke militaries.
They all have massive numbers of violent immigrants and cannot are destroying their energy and farming sectors.
It’s hard to see why they think attacking Russia right now would be helpful.
No electricity in Russia = people making do as best they can in an orderly, civilized manner.
No electricity in America = riots, looting and anarchy.
There's no need for missiles, bombs and military mobilization to bring America to its knees. It can be done by someone sitting at a computer terminal. The enemy is us. The Russians know this.
“The US has plenty of air assets in Europe to deliver ordnance against Russian targets on Russian soil.”
Call your flying monkeys Chinaman. I don’t care. But you are a loon if you think we can openly conduct airstrikes -inside- Russia and the Russians would never DARE hit us back. Hate to break it to you, but the pressure Putin faces domestically is that he is being too weak.
After the Russians got nukes, it became a near religious article of faith over there that Russia would never again face war on their own soil, as it has so many times from Europe, without the attackers being wiped out at that moment.
They think the days of Napoleon, the Crimean War, the US/Brit intervention in the Russian Civil War, WWI, WWII were finally in the “never again” zone because the attacker would not remain safe and untouched in their homelands ever again. Its’ a deeply held matter of doctrine.
Your whole argument is “they wouldn’t dare, even if we bomb them inside Russia”. So call all of your government Uke shill bots. Don’t care a bit. But I am glad to know you disliked what I said.
Flak.... Target.
By the way Chinaman, half your ping list has been zotted or hasn’t posted in over a year. LOL
Instead Russia is busy organizing the majority of the worlds economy against us... and Biden helped by seizing Russian assets in our banks.
No need to nuke idiots destroying themselves.
Ukraine ping
mactruck: [Also known as mutually assured destruction, without all the psychotic imagery.
Keyword is mutual, dummy.]
And there is nothing mutual about it. Once the nuclear sword is unsheathed, the side that does an all-out attack first wins. Since there is no such thing as a limited nuclear war, the moment he nukes us, the risk is that we hit him with everything we have. That’s why he can’t take the risk.
Same reason Hitler would not use chemical weapons. Fear of retaliation. Hitler was not, in principle, against gassing people. His infamous death camps at Treblinka, Sobibor and other locales are evidence of that. The possibility of being being gassed, however, kept him from using them against Allied troops, even though he was in no personal danger.
Putin, on the other hand, is highly exposed to nuclear attack, as are his family members and close personal associates and their kin. The threat of nuclear retaliation keeps nuclear powers from initiating first strikes against powers with a second strike capability for the same reason that hostage exchanges once guaranteed peace treaties. Except in the past, a king could always hand over some idiot son he never considered a worthy heir as a hostage. Whereas in the nuclear age, rulers are themselves hostages who will be killed by nuclear retaliation, if they launch a first strike.
Lol...how many times are you gonna ping that dopey list with your AI generated drivel?
Ukraine ping
Desert Rhino: [Call your flying monkeys Chinaman. I don’t care. But you are a loon if you think we can openly conduct airstrikes -inside- Russia and the Russians would never DARE hit us back. Hate to break it to you, but the pressure Putin faces domestically is that he is being too weak.
After the Russians got nukes, it became a near religious article of faith over there that Russia would never again face war on their own soil, as it has so many times from Europe, without the attackers being wiped out at that moment.
They think the days of Napoleon, the Crimean War, the US/Brit intervention in the Russian Civil War, WWI, WWII were finally in the “never again” zone because the attacker would not remain safe and untouched in their homelands ever again. Its’ a deeply held matter of doctrine.
Your whole argument is “they wouldn’t dare, even if we bomb them inside Russia”. So call all of your government Uke shill bots. Don’t care a bit. But I am glad to know you disliked what I said.
Flak.... Target.]
This ping list is meant to share insights and solicit occasional commentary. I don’t labor under the illusion that this is changing minds. This is basically a bull session on steroids. We have all strong views and most of the people on my ping list don’t agree with me.
As to the rest, you’ve expressed all kinds of violent hostility towards multiple domestic political figures. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people like you. And yet the people you talk about remain unharmed. The analogy to Putin being deterred from a nuclear first strike is simple. Someone could go after a domestic political figure and no one would go after his family. Whereas if Putin nuked the West, his family would be annihilated in a retaliatory nuclear strike. You may hope that Putin will nuke the US to fulfill your desire that the nation be punished for its sins. Putin, however, is deterred by the fear of death as well as the prospect of his entire nation dying with him. That’s a heavy burden. The same burden has prevented other Russian leaders from using nukes to achieve their territorial or other goals.
fixed it.
Enough with the deflection from reality already.
China Dude is another Ukie cheerleader nutter.
Lol...how many times are you gonna ping that dopey list with your AI generated drivel? - mac_truck
Not a good idea. Puts Putin too close to pushing the nuke button.
Thank you for responding, and please, I am not advocating this. I merely surmise from the actions of the Obama team who runs Biden that that is the path our country is on and damn the concerns of the entire population. There is so much wrong with our current policy in Ukraine and our past actions there particularly. Why are we nearly at war with Russia, a country which with we much in common, and common goals and desires?
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We are living thru another July Crisis, led by an infinitely more stupid political leadership.
We are in the hands of the Lord.
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