[Forward the Light Brigade]

Russia is in the wrong here.

Well is she in the wrong?
Russia did invade after being asked by the rebellious people of east Ukraine asked them to protect them from Kiev.
But, China invaded Tibet and annexed it, and expelled their ruler the Dali Lama and no one makes a fuss about that.
China broke a treaty with England and simple took over Hong Kong—and no one made an effort to help them.
But, they were Asians so, it doesn’t count?
Both Russia and Ukraine have been accused of war crimes, but then so has Hamas and Israel been accused of such things.
Israel bombs an embassy annex and America doesn’t cry foul. So far Russian hasn’t bombed any embassies even if we blew up the Chinese embassy in the war with Serbia over Kosovo.
Lots of complex problems. No good guys here. Putin and Zelensky are both tyrants. Why should we care who wins?

[Timber Rattler]

Russia did invade after being asked by the rebellious people of east Ukraine asked them to protect them from Kiev.

That's a well-worn Kremlin lie.

Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine

Russian national Igor Strelkov, a former commander of pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, has claimed personal responsibility for unleashing the conflict in which 4,300 people have been killed since April.

"I was the one who pulled the trigger of this war," Strelkov said in an interview published Thursday with Russia's Zavtra newspaper, which espouses imperialist views.

"If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out — like in [the Ukrainian city of] Kharkiv, like in Odessa," Strelkov, who uses that nom-de-guerre meaning "Shooter" to replace his last name Girkin, was quoted as saying.

"There would have been several dozen killed, burned, detained. And that would have been the end of it. But the flywheel of the war, which is continuing to this day, was spun by our unit. We mixed up all the cards on the table," he said.

[canuck_conservative]

Lots of complex problems. No good guys here

What a crap post

See, that's exactly the kind of Russian lies and propaganda we're talking about, and it infests FR daily

Putin is a monster. PERIOD. Deal with it, Rooskie.

FR was a lot better before the Russian trolls showed up in the last 2 years!

[freeandfreezing]

If you don't care who wins, you aren't thinking clearly.

If Ukraine wins Russia becomes much less of a threat to the USA. That allows us to cut future defense spending.

If Russia wins they may decide to continue their attacks on their neighbors. When they decide to take Estonia, or another NATO member then it will be American kids fighting in the trenches in Europe, not Ukrainians.

And the USA will spend a lot more money when we are fighting Russia than what supporting Ukraine with mostly surplus equipment costs.

[lonestar67]

Why should we care who wins?

Simple

Putin invaded Ukraine PERIOD.

And yes, he will invade the entire front range of NATO ‘rescuing his fellow Soviet idealists’ in the manner you so fatefully and loyally report.

The idea that posting comments in support of Ukrainian independence is somehow an impossible burden for you or fellow Putinistas to bear is the absurdity of the moment.

[BroJoeK]

Forward the Light Brigade: "Russia is in the wrong here.
Well is she in the wrong?
Russia did invade after being asked by the rebellious people of east Ukraine asked them to protect them from Kiev."

Russia's 2014 "little green men" invaded Ukraine:

That is simply the Russian propaganda lie version of the story.
The truth is quite different.
In fact, after the Russian military invaded and seized Crimea, in February 2014, with no serious provocation or justification, in April Russia led separatists seized Ukraine government buildings and declared their independence in the Donbas.
Russia sent troops, "little green men", tanks and artillery, a "stealth invasion", except there was nothing very stealthy about it.

Forward the Light Brigade: "But, China invaded Tibet and annexed it, and expelled their ruler the Dali Lama and no one makes a fuss about that."

Really?
You want to relitigate "Who Lost China" from 1950?

In fact, the US did support Tibetan military resistance to CCP China for nearly 20 years, until 1974, after which the Dali Lama himself taped a message to Tibetans calling for them to lay down their weapons and surrender peacefully.

Even today, Congress continues to support Tibetans, most recently with about $23 million in funding passed in March 2024.

Forward the Light Brigade: "China broke a treaty with England and simple took over Hong Kong—and no one made an effort to help them."

Well, nobody knows what help is provided behind the scenes, but publicly:

Hong Kong's Umbrella Movement, mostly silent protests:

1. The Brits have offered residency and citizenship for up to three million Hong Kongers.

2. The American government has imposed further sanctions on CCP China for its crackdowns on Hong Kong.

3. There is a long list of dozens of countries which have expressed diplomatic support for Hong Kong at the United Nations and elsewhere.

We might notice here that Hong Kongers themselves have not been inclined to wage civil war against CCP China, nor has the CCP seen military invasion of Hong Kong as necessary... yet.

Forward the Light Brigade: "Both Russia and Ukraine have been accused of war crimes, but then so has Hamas and Israel been accused of such things."

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is, by definition, a war crime in and of itself.
The United Nations International Court of Justice (ICJ), the International Criminal Court (ICC), the United States Justice Department, the United Kingdom, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry and/or Amnesty International have charged Russian military forces with:

1. Violating the UN Charter Article 2(4) against unjustified invasions.

2. Deliberate Attacks on Civilian Targets: This includes strikes on hospitals and on the energy grid.

3. Indiscriminate Attacks on Densely-Populated Areas: This includes the use of cluster bombs.

4. Abduction, Torture, and Murder of Civilians, including Summary Executions: The UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine reported summary executions of civilians by Russian troops in northern Ukraine from February to April 2022.
   In the town of Bucha near Kyiv, the Mission documented the killing of 73 civilians.
   The report states that the UN has documented the violent deaths of 441 civilians in the initial 6 weeks of the Russian invasion alone1.
   Additionally, four Russian soldiers were charged with war crimes for abducting and torturing an American during the invasion.

5. Forced Deportations: The transfer of 31 children to Russia in May 2022 was considered an unlawful deportation, thus a war crime.
   Ukraine's government claims about 20,000 children were kidnapped by Russians.
   Russia's government claims about 700,000 Ukrainian children were evacuated to Russia.

6. Sexual Violence: Investigations in the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions showed that rape and other sexual violence were often committed together with additional acts of violence.

7. Destruction of Cultural Heritage, including churches, museums, monuments, libraries & archeological sites.

8. Mistreatment, Torture, and Murder of Ukrainian Prisoners of War.

There are no credible accusations of similar crimes committed by Ukrainian military forces in self-defense.

Forward the Light Brigade: "Israel bombs an embassy annex and America doesn’t cry foul.
So far Russian hasn’t bombed any embassies even if we blew up the Chinese embassy in the war with Serbia over Kosovo."

Answer me this, seriously: why would the US ever cry "foul" about an Israeli bombing of an Iranian consulate in Syria that killed seven Iranian military commanders?
How is that a problem for us?

As for the 1999 US accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Serbia -- Pres. Clinton apologized to the Chinese and we paid CCP China something like $33 million in compensation and reparations for the deaths, injuries and damages... {insert worn-out Clinton joke here}

Forward the Light Brigade: "Lots of complex problems.
No good guys here.
Putin and Zelensky are both tyrants."

And yet again with the Russian propaganda lies?!
In fact, Vlad the Invader is Russia's dictator, as corrupted and criminal as they come in the Russian tradition of Tsars and Soviet rulers.
By stark contrast, Ukraine constitutionally elected its president in 2019, and by constitutional law, he will face reelection when Vlad's invasion is defeated.

Forward the Light Brigade: "Why should we care who wins?"

Because Vlad the Invader's Russia today is what it's always been, an evil empire who's purpose is conquest and expansion.
Empires feed and grow through victories, they are only ever held in check by the strength of their opponents' military forces.

Victory in Ukraine will encourage Vlad to Invade more countries.
Only defeat will allow Russians themselves to rise up and overthrow their dictator and oligarchs.

Today's Axis of Evil Dictators:

1. Vlad the Invader's Russia
2. Xi-snake's CCP China
3. Little Kim's NoKo
4. The Moolah Mullahs' Iran
5. Other wannabees like Chavez-Madura's Venezuela.

Democracy Index -- blue/yellow = more democratic, red/brown = dictatorships