Posted on 03/07/2024 4:23:34 AM PST by hardspunned
The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced that the T-72B3 tank destroyed one of the American-supplied M1 Abrams in Ukraine. According to the Russian ministry spokesman, this happened “with the first shot” fired by the T-72B3 in the skirmish.
BulgarianMilitary.com recalls that at the moment there are at least three M1 tanks that have been confirmed as destroyed. Two of them are in the Avdiivka region. On February 26, the destruction of the first M1 tank was reported. According to drone footage, the tank was obliterated by the firing of two munitions – the first was an anti-tank missile, while the second was an FPV drone. That’s why the statements by the Russian ministry likely refer to the second tank decimated near Avdiivka.
(Excerpt) Read more at bulgarianmilitary.com ...
In war, even great battle tank classes are destroyed...in tank warfare, I have always placed as high a value as training, logistics, and tactics, not to mention air cover, although drones do appear to have shifted that scale.
The M1 is an excellent, proven platform. But it is a tank nonetheless.
Unfortunately, there are no winners in this war.
I believe the US was correct in providing armor without the most current protective features. To do that would provide an opposing force the ability learn from live fire conditions how the M1 Abrams can be degraded operationally.
It’s no different that providing F-16 aircraft. Capable, but dated.
I believe American units would be deployed differently (mobile infantry, artillery and air support working together).
One has to ask how competent their tank crews are. From what I’m reading (on FR), combatants are conscripted and put into battle rather hurriedly. The equipment might be capable but if the crews are inexperienced, that’s a problem.
I used to know a guy who was a Ranger, decorated combat veteran, all that stuff, who used to say they’d never get him into a tank. That was even before drones came along.
An example of difficulty, trying to find out what happened.
Denys Davydov 11:11/25:20 at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uSdZzxkGC4
Re Abrams tank hit by Russians. Davydov is relating what he knows, based upon info online, from a pro-Russian source: A Russian tank supposedly shot (”one strike”) at the Abrams.
The Abrams tank was actually hit by 2 Russian Kornet anti-tank missiles plus a few FPB drones - 36:43/1:12:26 at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDGoppLvXko
- 1st Kornet strike
- FPV drones strike
- 2nd Kornet strike
We always have confidence in our weapons.
We feel sure that if WE were running the operation, our weapons would be unstoppable.
When I think of many of the people in the US military today, and when I think of our weapon acquisition programs today, I have serious concerns that our weapons are not nearly as good as we think they are. No matter who crews them.
The intelligent thing to do is to bring the Ukrainian crews to the US and send them through the tanker training in the US at Fort Knox Kentucky.
I have no idea if that happens or not.
The base has high tech simulators.
Would the Abrams have survived if it were fully equipped, regardless of what took it out? I certainly hope that is the case.
I don’t think we currently getting a trillion dollars a year worth of value from the MIC.
Hopefully the US people on the ground will recover the disabled tanks and bring them back to the US.
The tanks can be sent to the Lima Tank Plant in Ohio to be rebuilt.
There are no more of the M1 chassis being built but the tank can be rebuilt from the chassis up.
A friend who knows a bit about the Lima, Ohio plant, says there are different grades of protection. Survival of the crew is better. Tank recovery is another matter. Tracks are vulnerable to mines.
I guess they eventually got past that hurdle, but it takes time. Time the Ukes do not have.
Funny thing, that. People would rather live in the Hell they know, rather than the one they don't.
There is a great story about Chesty Puller when he was on Guadalcanal, and got cut off by Japanese forces, and needed to be extracted by a destroyer (USS Monssen) offshore who came in close and took he and his men aboard.
At the time, the Marines were having a very tough time of it, food, supplies, air cover, and ammunition were all in short supply, and the Japanese were, from skill set and force level perspectives battling at nearly par with the Americans.
So, he came aboard the destroyer, and the crew treated those men like kings, and offered to keep them aboard longer, but when the time came, Puller took the first opportunity to take himself and men back ashore to resume the fighting in the mud, slime, insects and putrid death.
This is how the US Naval Institute related the story from the perspective of the skipper of the USS Monssen:
Through the years, many of those who served with and admired legendary Marine Lieutenant General Lewis Burwell “Chesty” Puller have reminisced in their Naval Institute oral histories. At Guadalcanal, Navy Vice Admiral Roland N. Smoot was a commander, skipper of the destroyer USS Monssen (DD-436) escorting the USS Alhena (AKA-9), which was bringing supplies to the Marines in fierce fighting ashore and taking on board the wounded. Smoot also was answering calls for gunfire support from the units ashore.
My men were looking at the beach and saw a man wigwagging at them, way up high in the hills. We were all pretty leery of the Japanese. I asked my signalman, “Isn’t there some kind of recognition system that we have?” On a hunch, he wigwagged the question, “Who won the World Series in 19--?” and it came back correct.
We sent a boat in and out came Chesty Puller, his aide, and a couple of Marines. He came up to the bridge and said, “I’ve got to get some men out of trouble. They are trapped up there. I doggone near lost my life getting down to the beach. Let me tell you where to shoot.”
So he went up into control with my gunnery officer, and we just turned loose on this island. We ploughed it with bullets, straight up and down the middle. Then we spread the fire power up two sides, and the Marines came down to the beach between. We sent for landing boats, and they arrived in good time. Of course, Chesty was duly thankful and we became great and close friends.
After it was all over, and while I was steaming slowly back to the landing area to let Chesty off, he went below and had a shower. We washed and dried his clothes. He ate a great dinner. As he went over the side, he said, “Thank you very much. God, I wouldn’t have your job for anything in the world.” I said, “You’ve seen the kind of life I lead out here and you prefer yours?” He said, “I sure do. When you get hit where are you? When I get hit, I know where I am.”
And he had a point. Most people don't know, but the US Navy lost four times as many men killed in the naval battles and operations around the Solomons during the Guadalcanal campaign, and in a most brutal and barbaric fashion, too. (The book: "Neptune's Inferno" is about the naval campaigns, and the bloody carnage aboard ships subjected to naval gunfire, torpedoes, and the predations of sharks once they went into the water is chilling to read. The story of the sinking of the USS Wasp is underreported when compared to that of the USS Indianapolis, but the stories of men being taken by sharks in that sinking were suppressed for years, not only by the Navy, but by the men who witnessed them.
So at least when it came to the Solomons in 1942, Chesty Puller knew of what he spoke.
That was the early 1980’s. Computers were a Very new thing.
Atari was the most advanced computer thingy that most of these young men had ever seen.
I’ve seen video purporting to be two additional Abrams chassis being destroyed. What would that be? What kind of non gun mounted platforms would these serve, if true?
That is certainly a concern.
If I was in such a position I would really be tempted.
After all death is a very real possibility if you finish your training and return to Ukraine.
If you spoke passible English it would be almost an almost irresistible temptation.
The Tanks sent to Ukraine were downgraded with a less capable armor. Would the US armor have stopped the tank round? Maybe.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.