Posted on 02/06/2024 10:55:49 AM PST by CFW
he mother of a shooter who killed four students at a high school in Oxford, Mich., in 2021 was found guilty Tuesday on all charges of involuntary manslaughter.
Jennifer Crumbley, 45, had pleaded not guilty to four involuntary manslaughter counts, and the jury found her guilty after 10 hours of deliberation, per CNN.
Her son, Ethan Crumbley, was sentenced to life in prison in December after he pleaded guilty in 2022 to two dozen charges, including terrorism and first-degree murder.
(Excerpt) Read more at justthenews.com ...
This is a mixed bag here... If they knew their sone was in mental distress, and had a gun that they provided and did nothing, then there is culpability here.
Didn’t follow the trial, so I don’t know if the state really proved the parents were aware of his mental delcine/issue.
I’ve personally witnessed a person have mental breakdown, literally were perfectly fine 1 second and ripping their clothes off screaming crazy things the next... without warning.
Again I didn’t follow this trial, so I can’t say if a reasonable parent would know this kid was “falling down” or not. Clearly with 4 dead kids, a jury is going to want to assign blame if they can... Hindsight is always 20/20, real time is not.
He was completely unsupervised in public with a deadly weapon shooting kids because his mother was stupid enough to give a nut bag minor a gun lock her up
If you want to avoid such charges, don’t raise your child to be a mass murdering thug.
No, it’s not illegal for a 15 year old to have a gun. It is illegal for the 15 year old to do what he did with iy.
Actually, I kinda like the idea of jailing “parents” for sins committed by kids on cell phones.
Kids should not have more than a “phone only” flip phone. OK for emergency calls and calling the pizza parlor. Sharing crappola and ruining your life on TokTok, ‘Ell no.
Parents are irresponsible in this way.
1931
750.234f Possession of firearm by person less than 18 years of age; exceptions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234f.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), an individual less than 18 years of age shall not possess a firearm in public except under the direct supervision of an individual 18 years of age or older.
Agreed. Bad case law. Where are we headed with this?
“Prosecutors said she was ‘grossly negligent...’”
Gross negligence is most often a civil charge; criminal negligence is a criminal charge. Gross negligence in a criminal proceeding is usually associated with the negligent person actually committing the crime that caused the injury (for example, a drunk driver running over a kid on a bike).
The state had to show that Chumley should have been aware that her son was bent on mass murder and that she failed to prevent it.
There was NO evidence brought out in the trial to support that.
The jury “read into” the case more than what was presented as evidence. In other words, the jury assumed she “should have known.”
This can make for bad case law.
> Kids aren’t supposed to have deadly weapons. <
Unless under close supervision by a parent. At a gun range, for example. I believe you’ll agree with that.
A huge problem with this story is a lack of details. Did the mom say, “Here’s a loaded gun, Junior. Keep it in your room.” Or was it, “You can use this gun when you go hunting with Uncle Bob. We’ll keep it on my closet shelf in the meantime.”
Big difference. The first one is criminal. The second, stupid but not necessarily criminal.
“I think the parents can make the defense that if schools can gender transition without parents, then the school is solely responsible.”
There are some talking heads that agree with you.
I agree she should have known to be responsible with something like that. She’s guilty. Enforce the existing gun laws. Let your kids run around with weapons then you will face the consequences. If not - enjoy prison
“Sticky claim. What about supplying under age child with alcohol? Is that punished in Michigan?”
Apples and oranges. Whereas it’s illegal for a 15-year old to consume alcohol, it is NOT illegal for a 15-year old to possess a gun, except under certain specified circumstances.
There are more and more cases like this. Prosecutors pick out the most egregious ones. This woman did a lot wrong. There is another case where a girl told her boyfriend that he should kill himself and he did. The girlfriend did a lot wrong too. But it still is troublesome that prosecutors are expanding the definition of crime in this way. Once they score a victory in the most egregious cases like this, you can be sure they will expand their prosecutions to parents of any kid who has a gun who commits a crime with it.
You proved my point I guess; though conveniently didn’t list the exceptions.
There’s no exception that covers hunting fellow students. I think you probably know that
“Also, there is still a difference in that a cellphone doesn’t have a constitutional amendment protecting a right to ownership.”
It is recognized that while minors are persons, the law also recognizes that minors aren’t mature or responsible enough for certain actions (drinking, voting, marriage, etc.). They are, however, recognized as having the maturity and responsibility once they reach the age of majority. So, though we have the 2nd Amendment, that does not mean that children enjoy the right to the extent a mature person does.
That is well-settled law.
I can remember when it was common for 15 year olds to have guns for hunting.
He used a freakin 9mm handgun I don’t think there’s any provision for that
” But it still is troublesome that prosecutors are expanding the definition of crime in this way. Once they score a victory in the most egregious cases like this, you can be sure they will expand their prosecutions to parents of any kid who has a gun who commits a crime with it.”
As I said earlier: It sets up bad case law.
“Michigan also prohibits issuance of a handgun purchase license to any person under age 18.5 If the handgun is to be purchased from a federally licensed dealer, the applicant must be age 21 or older.6
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