[Dr. Sivana]

As the co-founder and CEO of Tesla, Elon leads all product design

I remember when there was a Tesla with no Elan, when they were just raising money. He is co-founder of Tesla, perhaps, the way Ray Kroc is perceived as the founder of McDonald's.

I also don't believe that the current Cleveland Browns are the legitimate heirs of the legacy of Jim Brown, Otto Graham, Greg Pruitt, and Marion Motley. Same name, and they are allowed to claim the records, but the owner and all the players went to Baltimore.

[linMcHlp]

Please forgive me for disagreeing.

As I thank a friend who stepped up to keep the name of the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland.

[pepsi_junkie]

I also don't believe that the current Cleveland Browns are the legitimate heirs of the legacy of Jim Brown, Otto Graham, Greg Pruitt, and Marion Motley. Same name, and they are allowed to claim the records, but the owner and all the players went to Baltimore.

Who cares about them? Not a one of them plays or coaches today, but there are still fans in the stands who remember they day the Browns left Cleveland and THEY are the ones who deserve the claim to that history, not a team in Baltimore.

[unlearner]

Some of what you are saying is true. And there is some debate over whether Musk should be considered a “founder”, but I believe he is in every sense.

He was the main investor when the company first raised private equity. He took over just a few months later. And here is the most important factor: there was no product to sell until 4 years later.

So, sure a couple of other guys got the ball rolling with their electric car idea. They chose the initial design of the Lotus body/frame quite possibly before Musk was involved (or maybe not). But Musk is the primary person who got it off the ground, kept it out of bankruptcy, and made it very profitable. Without Musk there would be no Tesla, and probably no EV automotive market.