My listing of Old Soviet Empire countries who have joined NATO and/or drastically increased their national defense budgets since 2014 was in response to your unjustified claim that:
You even dishonestly put those alleged words in quotes!!
And yet, I said no such thing.
Of course, I am saying that Vlad the Invader's threats of nuclear war are indeed, "irrational and insane".
Now, if you wish to discuss such threats rationally and sanely, we can do that, I'm happy to if you want, and I'd begin by asking you if there is any place on earth that you would risk the possibility of nuclear war to defend?
Gaffer: "Honestly, you just cannot STAND anyone not hopelessly committed to going down with UKR and you cannot STAND anybody disagreeing with this almighty NATO deism cult thinking.
NORTH ATLANTIC, dammit.....how hard is that to understand?"
Seriously? Americans are not "going down with Ukraine", though we are helping Ukrainians defend their own country.
But if Vlad the Invader does defeat Ukraine, then there is no way Americans can avoid the negative consequences including:
This list shows unresolved territorial disputes by continent, including:
90 total territorial disputes around the world
This list shows border conflicts resulting in actual fighting -- dozens just since 2000.
All of these are kept in reasonable check by the deterrent values of America's military alliances.
As deterrence declines, expect such conflicts to increase.
Sorry, but no, it is only your wishful thinking which denies the obvious, namely that NATO and other Western countries have been treating Ukraine as if Ukraine is our ally and already strongly supported by NATO, if not a de jure member.
I think at this point eventual official NATO membership for Ukraine is all but inevitable.
Gaffer: "In end neither you or I will agree because I didn’t lose anything in UKR and I don’t believe them losing or ceding territory will result in my children fighting Russians in Europe where everybody secretly agrees not to use nuclear weapons (because it’s and insane and irrational fear)....."
Sorry, your lengthy sentence is a little hard to follow.
It seems you are trying to tell me that you don't want to send Americans to fight a nuclear war against Vlad the Invader, and you fantasize the best way to prevent that is simply to concede to Vlad whatever territories he demands, be they in Ukraine, or Moldova, or Georgia, or Estonia, or Latvia, Lithuania, Finland or Poland or Romania, Slovakia or anywhere else, right?
Have I stated your argument here correctly?
Gaffer: "What I do know is that when it does lose, there are going to be some awfully disappointed Zeepers here who will be going through some pretty serious postpartum depression."
Your words "win" and "lose" are matters of definition.
In one sense Ukraine has already won and Vlad the Invader lost when:
Finally, there's this, a map of the world color coded by levels of democratic government where green & yellow = more democratic, while red and black = authoritarian dictatorships
This is the larger issue at stake in Ukraine today.
“NATO and other Western countries have been treating Ukraine as if Ukraine is our ally and already strongly supported by NATO, if not a de jure member.
I think at this point eventual official NATO membership for Ukraine is all but inevitable. “
If that turns out to be the case the Russians will likely set Ukraine’s eastern border at the Seret River.
You’re nothing but a cultist STALKER who thinks he can ridicule and stop opposing comments that don’t comport with your UKR-or-nothing thinking.