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THIS IS WHY AMERICA FORGOT HOW TO WIN
D. Greenfield via Freedom Is Just Another Word ^ | December 8, 2023 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 12/10/2023 5:29:55 AM PST by skimbell

Why don’t we win wars anymore? Listen closely to Austin, McChrystal and virtually every military head honcho in the last twenty years and the answer is obvious. We don’t set out to win wars by defeating the enemy on the battlefield, but on the battlefield of ideas. Our forces are led by a generation of politicians in uniforms who have been indoctrinated, beginning at the academy level, to think of wars as contests for the hearts and minds of enemy civilians.

(Excerpt) Read more at danielgreenfield.org ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: military
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To: skimbell
With all due respect, first you have to balance intersts, vital intersts, and the military power you have before entering a conflict - is something at stake worth the cost and could you even achieve it. Then you have to figure out what winning looks like defined in a way that it can be achieved. And then you need strategy, doctrine, tactics forces and will to achieve it

Once you understand the NK geography and doctrine of the enemy you realize two things: American tactics and capabilities could dominate in the South. We hadn't a hope in hell in the terrain in the North at least not unless we were willing to fight a massed up close and personal counterinsurgency in the mountains, a lesson we already learned in the South Pacific Island camapaign in WWII.

WWII was a total victory because the aim was to defeat the Nazi occupation. If our goal was democracy in Poland then we were ignominiously defeated.

21 posted on 12/10/2023 6:06:37 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: skimbell
I liken this to the people who fret about calling Pedo Joe a demented, pathetic old fool, because it is rude or “beneath us”.

There is little that is beneath the leftists, and we’re not going to defeat them by trying to spare their feelings.

22 posted on 12/10/2023 6:08:03 AM PST by Sicon ("All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - G. Orwell>)
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To: Yo-Yo
I disagree with you Gulf war I "stalemate" conclusion only because it was snatched from a brilliant victory.

Schwarzkof kicked some major ass but was reigned in politically because the media was howling about the "Hiway of Death" and rumors of civilian casualties by featuring Iraqi media fed images of bombed out baby milk factories and bomb shelters full of women and children.

The same media political tactics are now in play over the Israeli's kicking the palistinian's butts. Every live hummus fighter is a freedom fighter, Every dead hummus fighter is a civilian casualty.

23 posted on 12/10/2023 6:17:31 AM PST by pfflier
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To: Yo-Yo
The Gulf War was not a stalemate. There was only one Gulf War, what you refer to as Gulf War II was the Invasion of Iraq. For the Gulf War to have been a stalemate Iraq would still hold Kuwait. The UN mandate only allowed for the liberation of Kuwait. What it did not allow for was the destruction of Iraq. Except for the UK and Kuwait, none of our Western or Middle Eastern Allies would have supported an Iraq invasion. Even the UK under Majors not Thatcher was questionable. Quite frankly, except in the mind of a Bush, Iraq was never a threat again regionally or internationally.

What you saw as a stalemate was Operations Northern and Southern Watch which were managed under the Clinton Administration. The Iraq invasion by Bush II was not an extension of Desert Shield/Desert Storm. The war in Iraq was if anything a huge mistake militarily. Profitable and great for R&D, but a mistake. I wonder if the real reason we went after Iraq was the military industrial complex thought Afghanistan was over too quickly with the removal of the Taliban from power. They got greedier.

24 posted on 12/10/2023 6:17:46 AM PST by OldGoatCPO (No Caitiff Choir of Angels will sing for me. )
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To: skimbell
Many wars since WWII have been fought with the understanding of the Nuclear arsenal.

When countries have nuclear arsenals, they are not invaded.

25 posted on 12/10/2023 6:20:10 AM PST by marktwain
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To: ComputerGuy

Military brute force, like burning the straw huts of grandmothers, didn’t work in Vietnam either... In fact, such atrocities only turned the public against the war.

There are 2 fronts: military and psychological (via propaganda) - both are waged in tandem, we did plenty of “hearts and minds” opps in WWII.


26 posted on 12/10/2023 6:21:36 AM PST by guinness4strength
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To: pfflier
Schwarzkof kicked some major ass but was reigned in politically because the media was howling about the "Hiway of Death" and rumors of civilian casualties by featuring Iraqi media fed images of bombed out baby milk factories and bomb shelters full of women and children.

Exactly. That's what I said with point #2.

27 posted on 12/10/2023 6:22:52 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: Leaning Right

Jerry Pournelle talked about this on his blog.

The political understanding was the President could do what he wanted, more or less, with the Dept. of the Navy (Navy & Marines). If things got serious, and you needed the Army (Dept. of War), you needed a formal declaration of war from Congress.

This of course all went away with the unified DoD post-WWII.


28 posted on 12/10/2023 6:25:43 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: ComputerGuy
No infidels (non Muslims) will ever "win the hearts and minds" of Muslims.

They do not think the way we do. In their minds we will always be the evil ones to be exterminated.

In bookstores is a very expensive, beautifully bound in green leather Holy Koran. If one was going to give a gift to someone, like a president, or any other high "ranking" person in society, it is what you would buy.

Every page was in Arabic on the left side, and English on the right. The English side was just like the other modern ones, all the "bad" stuff left out.

I have a non Muslim friend who is fluent in spoken and read Arabic. I asked him to come to the bookstore with me, because I was too cheap to buy the book.

I pointed out the sura I mentioned, and a few others, plus there were some he was familiar with he wanted to check. (he had spent quite a few years in Saudi-Arabia as a civilian). I have never seen the expression that came on his face before. Absolute shock.

He had only seen true versions before too. He said, "My God, they are two different books". I remember those exact words. I don't remember the rest of his comments word for word, but he went on to say, that this explains why so many people in our government have the wrong idea about Islam.

Every non Muslim (infidel) needs to read a true translation of the Holy Koran. Then they might understand why this is happening and why it will never stop happening.

IMHO these are probably the most accurate translations, and they are FREE.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/16955


29 posted on 12/10/2023 6:29:46 AM PST by Mogger
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To: Yo-Yo
Every major engagement since Korea has involved multiple partners fighting against the US. Without sealing borders and stopping outside resupplies of men and equipment, wars drag on.

That's why you can never take a politician serious or policy, unless borders are shut down. Outside jihadist always resupplied into Iraq and Afghanistan, Korea aided by China, and of course Vietnam had constant supplies from China and USSR.

That's also why the US is in decline via constant migration and illegal invasions from outside peoples, and politician's don't wanna do anything about it.

30 posted on 12/10/2023 6:30:33 AM PST by Theoria
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To: skimbell

The Socialist Marxist Dems don’t want the American people to win so the DNC can get control.


31 posted on 12/10/2023 6:33:25 AM PST by chopperk
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To: OldGoatCPO
The Gulf War was not a stalemate.

Yes, it was, because we removed the Iraqis from Kuwait but left Hussein in power. Stalemate.

What you saw as a stalemate was Operations Northern and Southern Watch which were managed under the Clinton Administration. The Iraq invasion by Bush II was not an extension of Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

Yes, Operation Iraqi Freedom was a direct extension of Desert Shield/Storm. We left Hussein in power, and enforced No-Fly zones in the North and South for a decade out of Saudi Arabia.

It was because of this prolonged U.S. presence in "the Holy Land" of Saudi Arabia that was the motivation by bin Laden for his attacks on 9/11. It was bin Laden hiding in Afghanistan that led to the invasion Afghanistan as Operation Enduring Freedom. Dubya then decided to invade Iraq after a perceived death threat to Daddy, and used the excuse of WMDs to justify it to Congress.

And the term "Gulf War II" was not coined by me, it is a common shorthand for Operation Iraqi Freedom.

32 posted on 12/10/2023 6:37:22 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: Chgogal
You win when you completely destroy your enemy a la Germany and Japan in WW2. Anything other than that is a loss.

I agree.

At one point, the thinking was that war was a little like chess -- if you capture the enemy's capitol (checkmate the king) then you win the war.
A little later, the thinking was that if you destroy the enemy army, you win the war.
In WWII, the idea was to completely destroy your enemy.

As this article indicates, the more recent idea is to make the enemy civilians love you more than they love their own government or their own religion. This just fails.

I believe that destroying the enemy and intentionally causing massive casualties is really the only viable strategy. Historically, this works very well.

33 posted on 12/10/2023 6:42:18 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: skimbell

A military member’s competence is inversely proportional to his/her (most definitely NOT its) political correctness. Take a look at our laughable military DEI “leaders”. Be afraid. Be very afraid.


34 posted on 12/10/2023 6:51:58 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: marktwain
When countries have nuclear arsenals, they are not invaded.

Oh really? Like the country called The United States of America? That one? 60 million illegals in-country at last count and rising? That one?

35 posted on 12/10/2023 6:53:10 AM PST by 4Runner
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To: Taxman

ping


36 posted on 12/10/2023 7:33:02 AM PST by Taxman ((SAVE AMERICA! VOTE REPUBLICAN IN 2024! SAVE AMERICA!))
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To: Leaning Right

To pick a few nits: The War Department concerned just the Army. The Navy had a separate department. With the creation of the Air Force as a separate branch all three were dumped into the new Department of Defense. But yes, the ‘Department of War’ does have the ring of meaning business about it.


37 posted on 12/10/2023 8:07:05 AM PST by hanamizu ( )
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To: skimbell

Who was the sage who said, “Get ‘em by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow” ?


38 posted on 12/10/2023 8:14:47 AM PST by Flatus I. Maximus (You can vote your way into Socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.)
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To: Yo-Yo
You are wrong, you completely miss the point removing Saddam was NEVER a goal in the Gulf War. Freeing Kuwait was the purpose for the war, period. You are ignoring history to buttress a point. You also buy into narratives from both liberals (protect daddy) and the military industrial complex. The real goal was to create a hedge around Iran and don’t ignore the politics of oil.

Again you are deferring to pundits, one war was called “The Gulf War” as it included troops from every Gulf nation plus other Muslim countries and was actually fought from the Gulf to free a Gulf nation. Afghanistan is not a Gulf Nation. You Having participated in both there was no Gulf War II medal, there was the GWOT, OEF and OIF. Having served during the duration of OIF and until 2016 during OEF, I can state unequivocally outside of news pundits, it was never referred to as Gulf War II. The Gulf War had a specific goal and we achieved it. The Global War on Terror was declared after 2001.

39 posted on 12/10/2023 8:18:02 AM PST by OldGoatCPO (No Caitiff Choir of Angels will sing for me. )
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To: skimbell

The enemy’s will to fight must be destroyed. Not just their means to fight.


40 posted on 12/10/2023 8:20:46 AM PST by super7man (Madam Defarge, knitting, knitting, always knitting.)
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