Posted on 08/24/2023 9:46:43 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
I can’t understand that.
I saw a military expert say Russians historically care little gaining land as a goal in a war. Their goal is to slaughter the enemy as much as possible, which they’ve been doing quite successfully
It is not the Russian way, but the proper way of making war.
The NATO doctrines are basically based on German teaching, or to put it correct on what the former Nazis made up about their doctrines.
The fact is that the Nazis lost WWII and so does NATO in every war ever since.
It's called an analogy.
Ukraine has made gains, and immediately some Putin supporters crawl out of the woodwork, demanding that all aid to Ukraine now be stopped. As though there were any logic to that syllogism.
Ukraine isn't protecting America
The Ukrainians are degrading the military strength of what was once America's premier geostrategic foe - and which is still a formidable military power with assets threatening America's heartland. Anything that weakens Russia's military strength is a plus, in my book.
Not in yours, though?
Regards,
bkmk
Excellent comparison. It was a raid, and a good one that embarrasses Putin.
Well done, Ukraine.
I’m glad they did. I’m for the people of Ukraine.
Man, that’s just ignorant. Do you know anything that’s really going on in Ukraine?
Russia trolls know zero and just trade bad jokes.
Ukrainians have raised to the level of graffiti artists.
Germans landed on American soil. Japanese landed on Austrailian soil. Didn’t mean either won the war.
MacGregor believes anything that excuses him from admitting an error. Hence after being vastly wrong, from a couple of weeks in, he pretty much had to go all in with Russian propaganda.
He could have said “well, that parts not going well”. But no, he had to go with “they meant to do that”. And he was trapped.
All for the sake of his amour propre.
That’s the trouble with guys like that.
They are protecting their country. This has nothing to do with US domestic politics.
This was a raid, not D-Day. And the reports said so, a few guys on boats.
Soviet and Russian doctrine was about the same as NATO. Indeed, it was even more focused on deep operations and combined arms.
This was worked out between Marshal Tukhachevskys crew and the German delegations in the 1920s-30s, when they were cooperating on tank design and doctrine.
That enhanced blitzkrieg doctrine was the Soviet standard throughout the Cold War. That’s what the Soviet group of forces in Germany was structured to do.
The Russian army went to an even more extreme doctrine, with combined arms and independent operation down to battalions. Those were the BTGs that entered Ukraine in 2022.
You could see them attempting to implement their doctrine. But they were too incompetent to do it. Imagine Guderian running out of gas two days after crossing the Meuse in May 1940, and German logistics failing to get him any for a week.
I see a problem when an incompetent Westerner, at best a POG type is trying to judge Russian or Ukrainian performance from the high horse.
You are not in the same league military as any of them.
And BTG worked, as contrary to the USMC doctrines employed to dislodge them. The say is that Harkov offensive was a success but they don’t say that the NATO-style “light brigades” suffered four times the casualties than the full strength of the Russian force they managed to force into withdrawal.
The Russian problem was that the BTGs relied on rebel forces for infantry as contrary to professional troops but it is not a doctrinal problem.
Ukrainians are slaughtered en-masse due to faulty NATO doctrines. If Europeans were in their place, the war would have been over long time ago by surrender to the Russians.
So, NoseWanking, do you think a Russian in Russia like yourself is better positioned to judge Russian or Ukrainian performance?
Embarrassment doesn’t win wars. Ukraine is losing—badly. The symbolism of attacks against Moscow and Crimea ring hollow for the Ukrainian people who are being devastated.
You'll drag down the collective intelligence of the group.
You are making unsupported assumptions about casualties and etc. Wait till after the war. Worse, the casualties argument smells of cope, an excuse for an inability to demonstrably win.
In the meantime what is apparent to everyone without counting casualties is loss of equipment and abandonment of territory. Everyone can see where the BTGs were, and where they could have gone.
What we see is the failure to carry out major operational maneuvers. This was the whole point of Russian doctrine. If the Russians had been competent to do that, this war would have been over a year ago. The “kesselschlacht” (which is in Soviet/Russian doctrine) would have pocketed the bulk of the Ukrainian army. And the Russians had that opportunity due to the Ukrainians inability to defend the extremely long border frontage with the small forces available as of 2/2022. The Russians just rolled by Sumy for example. They could easily have gone on from there and taken vital ground, such as the Dneiper bridges or their approaches, or surrounded Kharkiv at least, and forced the Ukrainians onto a crisis. That’s how armies are destroyed.
But the Russians could not keep their BTGs rolling long enough to make a decisive advance.
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