SCREENSHOT: CNN
Posted on 06/13/2023 9:21:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
SCREENSHOT: CNN
House Judiciary Chairman Jim Jordan broke down the major “flaw” in the indictment against former President Donald Trump Sunday on CNN with Dana Bash.
Trump announced the indictment Thursday, ahead of the official indictment being unsealed Friday. The charges against Trump include 31 counts of alleged violation of the Espionage Act or the willful retention of national security information, as well as one count of “conspiracy to obstruct justice,” one count of “withholding a document or record,” one count of corruptly concealing a documents or record,” one count of “concealing a documents in a deferral investigation,” one count of “scheme to conceal” and one count of “false statements and representations.”
Bash asked Jordan to comment on part of the indictment.
“The indictment said: ‘TRUMP directed NAUTA,’ who’s his personal aide, ‘to move boxes before Trump Attorney 1’s June 2 review, so that many boxes were not searched and many documents responsive to the May 11 Subpoena could not be found and were in fact not found by Trump Attorney 1.’ [sic] In plain English, this alleges that Trump instructed his aide to help him remove sensitive documents in defiance of a federal subpoena. A), Does that trouble you? And B) If he thought he had the right to have these documents, why was he trying so hard to hide them?” Bash asked.
“No, it doesn’t bother me because again, you can’t have obstruction of something when there was no underlying crime. The standard is set. The standard is what the Constitution says. The commander-in-chief — the president of the United States — has the ability to classify and control access to information. That’s what the Constitution and the court have said. So you can’t obstruct when there is — you can’t obstruct when there is no underlying crime,” said Jordan.
“He is not the president of the United States — ”
“That is the fundamental flaw,” Jordan shot back.
“And you’re just taking him at his word?” Dana asked.
“And when he was president, he declassified the material. He’s been — he’s been very clear about that.”
“He says point-blank, on tape, ‘As president I could have declassified it. Now I can’t.’ He says, in his own words, it’s on tape as part of this indictment, that he did not declassify the material. Therefore, it is classified.”
“Dana … saying he could have, saying he could have is not the same as saying he didn’t,” Jordan pushed back.
“He said, ‘now I can’t’,” Bash said.
“Now he can’t — right — because he’s not president now. But when he was president, he did declassify it. He said that,” Jordan said.
“Which means that what he was holding was classified,” Bash argued.
“Not if he declassified it when he was president of the United States, for goodness sake!”
“But he’s saying point-blank in this audio tape that he did not declassify it,” Bash said. “What you’re saying just doesn’t make sense on its face.”
“Dana, what this truly is, Dana, is an affront to the rule of law. It’s an affront to consistent application of the law. You have Secretary Clinton — who had classified material on a server — she was not president of the United States. She was Secretary Clinton. You have that happen, nothing happens to her,” Jordan continued before the duo moved on to other issues.
Bash was referencing was a July 2021 call which alleged Trump showed a “plan of attack” to a writer, a publisher and two staffers, which he said was prepared for him by the Department of Defense, according to the indictment. “As president, I could have declassified it,” Trump allegedly said at the time, and “now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”
***“And when he was president, he declassified the material. He’s been — he’s been very clear about that.”***
It’s all declassified
RE: It’s all declassified
How do you counter this argument from the opposition ( see article ):
“He says point-blank, on tape, ‘As president I could have declassified it. Now I can’t.’ He says, in his own words, it’s on tape as part of this indictment, that he did not declassify the material. Therefore, it is classified.”
Also, how do you explain this to a jury?
What gets lost here is that there’s special privileges for a POTUS and that what is being done here is a very selective fine line being drawn between ‘legal’ and ‘prison until death’. If this is such a slam dunk then many prior POTUS’s AND non-POTUS’s (Clinton, Biden as VP) committed worse and the P.R.A. isn’t worth the paper it is written on.
It’s disgusting how these fools will contort themselves to believe what they’re doing is anything resembling justice. Having documents that *may* not have been declassified is not justification for a criminal investigation and reasonable suspicion of a crime is required to begin an investigation. This is just a disagreement about what documents should be returned to the archives.
What do they think will happen if they actually put PDJT in prison? I know I know...they never think anything through.
Someone PLEASE TELL Jack Smith that the Presidential Records Act applies to POTUS or Former POTUS but NOT the Espionage Act!!!!
The Jack Smith clown show is an EPIC waste of time and money. This case should be DISMISSED by the judge based on prior legal precedent and misappropriation of the law. PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT looms LARGE here and a HIT JOB against POTUS Biden's LEADING OPPOSITION CANDIDATE. THAT.IS.ALL.THIS.IS.
You are ignoring the context of the statement, as well as previous statements by Trump. When first showing the document to the writer, Trump said, “this totally wins my case. Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information.”
Later, when a staffer talked about trying to declassify the document, Trump said, “See as president, I could have declassified it. Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”
Context is key. Trump can try to argue that he declassified the document while still president, but if the transcript is accurate, I think he would have a hard time convincing a jury. And keep in mind that this is only 1 of the documents listed in the indictment.
So then...what they found was just random pieces of papers mixed in with other papers....and I would guess they were all declassified though they still contained their markings. Rememmber, all department heads and a whole bunch of people can "classify"...and the same person can declassify. So it's not just the president that can declassify.
There were talks of striking Iran going back to Obama...lotsa talk...
The NARA contacted him in May of 2021. The conversation took place in July of 2021.
He was being sarcastic about their request.
A strike on Iran was far from a secret. Where’s the specific document?
As I recall, Obama ratted out the Israelis for planning an attack.
““But he’s saying point-blank in this audio tape that he did not declassify it,” Bash said.”
Herein lies a problem for Trump. I guess he has to argue that what he said on tape was incorrect and that the material had indeed been declassified.
The audio evidence has to be dealt with effectively.
I don’t think presidents have security clearances per se. And he doesn’t have a security clearance now. He could be given access by the current president if he has a need to know or, with permission, for his memoirs or library.
But, yes, the indictment deals with actions after Trump left the presidency, and it doesn’t appear to matter if the documents are classified or not. The indictment is saying that the government asked for the documents back, but President Trump hid them, lied about having turned everything over, and possibly sharing documents in ways that endanger national security.
Everyone needs to read the indictment so there can be informed discussion rather than just saying words.
No, they demanded a document(s) from him. His case was that Milley’s plan was ignorant. The document would protect his legacy,
But now they are demanding it from him.
He was being sarcastic or ironic or mocking or etc. ... in his comments about the position of the archivists and the documents.
I think it was Gen Milley’s dumb plan that Trump was commenting on that he had rejected.
Ping to CA Conservative
the president, by the act of taking the documents, declassified them.
Actually, the PRA guarantees access to his presidential records and doesn’t differentiate between classified and unclassified. Most ex-presidents retain their security clearances after leaving office, so unless he was stripped of his, I would think he still has it, but I could be wrong.
But you give a good summary of the indictment and what is alleged. Everyone is fixated on the tape as if undermining some aspect of that will blow up the case, but most of the case has nothing to do with that call. I think it was included primarily to make it difficult for Trump to claim he didn’t know the documents he was sharing were classified, or claim that he had previously declassified them. It could also be to establish intent (knowingly sharing classified data) which is a necessary component of the Espionage Act charges as I understand it. That was the excuse they gave to let Hillary skate, claiming they couldn’t show intent.
I already responded to that in post 17.
“ He was being sarcastic or ironic or mocking or etc. ... in his comments about the position of the archivists and the documents.”
I’m sure you believe that, and perhaps Trump will try to argue that, but I think he will have a harder time getting a jury to buy that argument.
100% BS.
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