Posted on 05/18/2023 5:14:28 AM PDT by JonPreston
U.S. officials are planning for the growing possibility that the Russia-Ukraine war will turn into a frozen conflict that lasts many years — perhaps decades — and joins the ranks of similar lengthy face-offs in the Korean peninsula, South Asia and beyond.
The options discussed within the Biden administration for a long-term “freeze” include where to set potential lines that Ukraine and Russia would agree not to cross, but which would not have to be official borders. The discussions — while provisional — have taken place across various U.S. agencies and in the White House.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Happy days for military investors. A war we don’t need.
The Globalists have had enough and they might want to call it quits and keep something like the current status quo. But Russia has to agree to that, and they probably won’t. And the Globalists have already signaled that they have had enough, so they’ve given the game away.
“set potential lines that Ukraine and Russia would agree not to cross”
So, Russia gets the territory it wanted in the first place. How is this not a victory for Russia?
It sure seems so
“The options discussed within the Biden administration for a long-term “freeze” include where to set potential lines that Ukraine and Russia would agree not to cross.”
Sounds like the Neocons are finally figuring out that Russia means business and now are trying to figure out surrender terms where they can still keep some of Ukraine (the Nazi part that they seem to be in love with).
The question becomes whether that will be acceptable to Russia...something I kind of doubt.
> So, Russia gets the territory it wanted in the first place. How is this not a victory for Russia? <
I can’t see Russia leaving those eastern provinces. But aggression cannot be rewarded.
My solution (not that anyone asked): Russia keeps those provinces, but must pay for them. Sort of like the Gadsden Purchase. Mexico knew the U.S. could just grab the territory. So why not save face, and sell it instead?
I would think that after what they ran into in Ukraine, their aggression didn’t really pay off.
Billions in lost lives, equipment and above all their status as the world’s number 2 military. The saber rattling of the future is not going to go over like before.
Plus, Nato on just about every Western border.
No, this wasn’t an easy victory for Russia. They can claim it as such, but there’s no way.
In the end, though, I’d be glad to see this war over. Let them keep the Donbas and Crimea. Return Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.
So, I guess, “at the end of the day,” this would constitute Biden’s original “minor incursion....”
Victory can take several forms. Pyrrhic Victory would be applicable here. If you believe Russia waged this war to better position itself against NATO it has instead created new NATO members and stretched its NATO border, in addition to spurring military spending by an economic bloc that is massively larger than Russia. And that’s not touching the value of military equipment lost waging this war which leaves it substantially weaker to threaten other neighbors.
The big NATO fear for the last decade has been how to handle a ‘little green men’ invasion of the Baltics. We know now how relatively toothless the Russians are. Everyone wondered after the Gulf War if the capabilities were that disparate. This war answered the question, and they’d find themselves smoked under PGMs.
Did anyone consult with the Russians about this?
My guess is the Russians will freeze the conflict at the Polish border.
What irony in your comment! Read on to your next paragraph.
My solution (not that anyone asked): Russia keeps those provinces, but must pay for them. Sort of like the Gadsden Purchase. Mexico knew the U.S. could just grab the territory. So why not save face, and sell it instead?
Let me get this straight. Russia invading Ukraine cannot be rewarded, BUT the US invading Mexico is okay!
Remember, the US invasion of Mexico was not a one-off. Clearly, the US has been an "invader," either with its military or with its much less obvious but more frequent covert invasions, for many years. You know, like the Arab Spring and the Maidan Revolution in Ukraine.
Morals for thee -- but not for me.
From what I understand Russia is cranking up its military industrial complex
With not only increased production from existing factories but are building new factories which may take several years to fully come online
In other words they are in it for the long haul
After a lull , lots of cruise missiles fired at Ukraine this month
The word was that Russia is low on cruise missiles , obviously not anymore
So it looks like they quickly ramped up production
Actually, the original Gringo Texans were invited by Spain to settle in Texas with the purpose of fighting the Comanches, who were kicking Spanish a$$. The terms they were offered were very generous. They could bring their slaves, have huge acreages, speak English, set up their own local government, be Protestant (Spain is/was Catholic), etc.
Upon arriving and setting up homes, Mexico revolted against Spain and Spain lost the territory. But Mexico, as a nation began at the same time as the Gringos in Texas.
Subsequently, the Texans won THIER freedom from Mexico just as Mexico won their freedom from Spain.
That is exactly right. We are on the same page. In my previous post I was arguing from reality, not from morality. The United States pretends to be morally superior to the rest of the world. But as you noted, we are often just as bad as any other gunboat nation.
Marine general Smedley Butler caught on to that back in the 1930s.
Peace sells, but who’s buying - Megadeth
I think you miss the point.
The US invaded Mexico in 1846 (Mexican-American War) -- after the US annexed Texas. The Gadsden Purchase came along a few years later but was directly related to that war. As the original commenter pointed out, it was a face-saving way for the Mexicans to throw in the towel.
So here we are today on our moral high-horse lecturing the Ruskies for invading a sovereign country when we've been doing it for centuries!
Peace Sells (But Who’s Buying)
https://youtu.be/rdEupVsL07E
Peace Sells
/
Lyrics
What do you mean, “I don’t believe in God”?
I talk to him everyday
What do you mean, “I don’t support your system”?
I go to court when I have to
What do you mean, “I can’t get to work on time”?
Got nothing better to do
And, what do you mean, “I don’t pay my bills”?
Why do you think I’m broke? Huh?
If there’s a new way
Oh, I’ll be the first in line
But it better work this time
What do you mean, “I hurt your feelings”?
I didn’t know you had any feelings
What do you mean, “I ain’t kind”?
Just not your kind
What do you mean, “I couldn’t be the President
Of the United States of America”?
Tell me something, it’s still “We the people” right?
If there’s a new way
Oh, I’ll be the first in line
But it better work this time
Can you put a price on peace?
Peace
Peace sells
Peace
Peace sells
Peace sells, but who’s buying?
Peace sells, but who’s buying?
Peace sells, but who’s buying?
Peace sells, but who’s buying?
(No, no no no no)
(Peace sells)
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Dave Mustaine
I do see your point, but if you use the past as the morale decider, NO ONE is exempt.
It’s a moot point.
Imperial Russia under the Czar’s worked their way East, all the way to the Pacific and Middle Asia, by conquering and enslaving and exterminating Asians, Turks, and other native peoples, just as the USA did working their way West. Mexico itself conquered all kinds of Indian nations moving North and into the Yucatan.
China did the same working Westward, Britian, France, Spain, Portugal, the Dutch, the Arabic Muslims, and long, long ago, the Romans, Persians, Greeks, Egyptians, the original Indo-Europeans and even different groups of native Americans.
Texas, as a nation, and then the United States, had, along with Mexico, significant border disputes. Mexico pushed it by moving troops North of the Rio Grande, land claimed by Texas and given to the Texans by a surrendering Santa Ana.
Your point is correct, but the logical outcome would be no one in the world would have a moral high-horse due to the past.
Anyway, the best outcome right now between Russia and Ukraine would be peace, and the Ukrainians should let go of Donbas and Crimea. I like the idea of Russia paying for them, and they could use a tax on their renewed gas/oil exports to Europe as a payment plan.
I’m ready to order some T-shirts, “We beat the FR Ukraine bots”
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