Levin has exposed himself as just another loud mouthed performer who does whatever Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnel, and the Bush clan tell him to do. He is farcical at this point.
Posted on 03/17/2023 9:02:16 AM PDT by Signalman
Ron DeSantis came out against our current blank check n’ hack cliches Ukraine policy, stating the indisputable truth that Ukraine was not a vital US interest worthy of risking World War III with Russia. The next day he was proven right when a Russian SU-27 knocked a US Reaper drone into the Black Sea. Hey, feeding Russians (and Ukrainians) into a meat grinder is all fun and games until we get dragged into the abattoir too. Of course, all the right people got really mad about it – when Bill Kristol, Adam Kinzinger, David French, Max Boot and Mitt Romney are all for something, you need to be against it. Hardest hit was the GOP establishment – it was very sad because the governor refuses to be dragged along into cheerleading yet another massive foreign policy failure.
And this Ukraine policy of feeding the fire in perpetuity will lead to yet another massive foreign policy failure. Massive failure is all our foreign policy elite knows. Name one of its successes since 1993. Don’t say the Abraham Accords – that was a huge success and had nothing to do with our foreign policy establishment. It was Trump outsiders who did it. The foreign policy establishment brought us Vietnam and Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. It brought us debt, blood, and humiliation. Yet, astonishingly, perpetual nimrods like Mitch McConnell John Cornyn and Lindsey Graham still defer to these utter losers.
But not Ron DeSantis. And he will be vindicated by the time he wins the nomination. Same with Trump should he win the nomination, but everyone expected him to say what he is currently saying – they were hoping that the Great Not Orange Hope would side with Team Sap and he rejected them. Ron DeSantis – who served in Iraq and saw the failure firsthand – has rejected the Beltway consensus. He’s a bit ahead of most of America now, but after another year and a half of this madness he and the American people will be in synch. If he wins the nomination, he will be an anti-war Republican against a pro-war establishment Democrat.
Americans are not pacifists, but they are sick of failure, and that’s what Ukraine is looking to become. Most Americans feel that Ukraine is corrupt, which it totally is – I saw it personally. They feel sympathy for the Ukrainians, as do I (I trained Ukrainian soldiers in Ukraine for the Army). And they agree with DeSantis that this territorial dispute – which it is – is not a vital American interest that overcomes other priorities and that is worth endless treasure and maybe even blood. We generally hope Ukraine wins, but this is not our fight. Nor is the war likely to spread to NATO countries where we have treaty obligations – the idea that we need to retake Crimea so the Russians don’t show up in Berlin, much less London, is ridiculous. Americans are not prepared to put up with this conflict forever, but forever wars that culminate in embassy helicopter evacuations and people falling off C-17s are what the Beltway buffoons do.
Here's the ugly fact: This war needs to end in a negotiated peace, one that the Ukrainians are not going to like. The Ukrainians have held the Russians back because they are tough and because we give them enough ammo and gear to do so. But they also succeed because, so far, the Russians have sucked. Their equipment, leadership, and morale stinks. Now the front lines are relatively frozen. It’s nearly WWI-like in some areas. We are not looking at sweeping maneuver warfare but static trench fighting. This eats up men and equipment. We can feed Ukraine more ammo and gear. We cannot feed them more men, and the locals are not buying the propaganda and cheery dance Tik Toks from the front. The Ukrainians are running out of troops. Russia, however, is much bigger. It has more bodies (even though many have fled the country). And it has a history of coming back from setbacks. Napoleon got to Moscow. Then he got driven out. Hitler nearly got to Moscow. Then he got driven back to the Brandenburg Gate. The Russians will fire their ineffectual generals and replace them with solid killers. They will reconstitute their equipment and build new and better armaments. They will train up new forces. To break the stalemate, one side is going to have to generate massive combat power that can shatter the enemy lines. If you are betting that the Ukrainians will do that first, you probably double-down on a 16.
Barring a peace treaty or some bizarre black swan event like a meteor flattening the Kremlin, the best case in the fall of 2024 is that the stalemate continues. The second worst case is that a Russian offensive drives the Ukrainians back. The very worst case is that a Russian offensive drives the Ukrainians back and the geniuses who brought you Baghdad and Kabul pour in American forces to try to stop the Ukrainian collapse.
DeSantis has taken the smart strategic position and the smart political position. He has shown leadership, because the American people will soon come to be where he is now, and they will do so around the time when the election gets into high gear.
The Ukrainians have to do what the Ukrainians have to do – I do not blame them for trying to wring dough and bombs out of Uncle Sucker. Nor am I upset that they appear to prefer to fight and die rather than enter into negotiations that will leave Russians on their territory. I get it. They are patriots supporting their country. But we normal Americans are patriots too, and our country is the United States. We expect Ukraine to pursue its national interests, but we expect America’s leadership to pursue America’s national interests. And it is in our national interest to get this war ended, even if it means Putin holds ground his forces conquered.
The whiners will whine that this is a betrayal of Ukraine. It’s not. We cannot betray a country that it not our own. It is instead a rational and ruthless bit of realpolitik – we must pursue America’s interests, not Ukraine’s. Ending this war is in America’s interest.
Again, I support Ukraine in both the abstract and practice – I would give them some aid. Ron DeSantis would too, just not aid that could expand the war. But it is clear that now America’s national interest is in forcing peace down both belligerent’s throats.
We have lacked a coherent strategy throughout this whole debacle. All we have done is employ reactive tactics. This has led to a stalemate in Ukraine, Russia and China growing closer as allies (and uniting with other enemies like Iran), and the depletion of European war-making capacity. Time to identify our strategic objectives. Our main objective should be to degrade China and maintain American supremacy. A supporting strategy should be to integrate Russia into the West to counter China’s rise. That means we need to get this war ended and start working to bring Russia into the West. “Degrade Russia” is one thing we hear a lot. How about a strong, Western-looking Russia that can keep the Chi Coms from taking all those sweet, sweet resources just sitting there in Siberia? The greatest foreign policy failure of the last 30 years was not Iraq or Afghanistan; it was the failure to bring Russian into the fold after the USSR fell. But our foreign policy hacks are so concerned with personalities – PUTIN! PUTIN! PUTIN! – they cannot focus on the world as it is and how to get it to what it should be.
Ron DeSantis gets it, and that’s why the people who have failed again and again and again are outraged at him. They were hoping they could co-opt him. Instead, when the election comes around the American people are going to be sick of this insanity and he will be right where they are – ready to move on from another endless war that only jerks like David Frum want.
Yes, I believe you can force Russia to the peace table.
Just announce full support for Ukrainian F-15, F-16, and A-10’s, that are in the Arizona desert facilities, to be delivered with hellfire missiles and gps guided munitions, 1000 M1A2 sp3 and 2000 Bradley’s, several hundred Paladins and copperheads.
Yes, that would turn the tide of battle and the Russians would be left considering using Nuclear Weapons before the convoys moved through Russia.
They don’t want that, I don’t want that, Russian people don’t want that. That would force them to the table. I agree, because the Russians invaded, they should give up Russian Territory to Ukraine. Maybe half way to Moscow would be sufficient……. Or maybe they should just leave all Ukraine territory and save everybody all the trouble.
Maybe I missed it … but has Ron DeSantis ever disavowed the U.S. military campaign in Iraq?
Having travelled both belligerents in this regional conflict, I can say the old EU saying is true, “ When shaking hands with a Ukrainian, be sure to check how many fingers he stole”.
Ukraine is the most corrupt nation on the planet,obvious as six Democrat politicians have Ukrainian ties, 10 percent to Joe.
Backing such a corrupt country will end in disaster, ( not to mention Ukraine’s Neo- Nazi ties), it is obvious evil is destroying evil, we have no business intervening.
Vlad still holds all the cards, and the collective West knows it.
Quite obvious:
Ukraine 1991-2023 RIP, tge quicker the better.
Where are the calls for Peace.? None, absolutely none, except for Trump who asked the same question. DeSantis has not called for Peace, Trump has.
The US has been infected with the dreaded Russian Derangement Syndrome, started by the Demoncrats years ago, Russia gate, Mueller’s failed investigation, Ukraine Vindman brothers, impeachment…
Blessed are the Peacemakers, carry on war cheerleaders, your road leads to destruction…….Ukraine has no strategic interests to us, except for the grift and enrichment of the war cheerleaders.
Peace isn’t the end-all-be-all, but I agree with you in this instance.
yes, i know.
I also was an USAF Tfwg member under do nothing Carter, too.
He let those gdmfng eye-ranians slide, too.
I am still here, with my bets being any military action with the russkies would be a re-enactment of the Union troops and picnikers at the 1st Battle of Bull Run.
Much of the Kuban area of Russia was Ukrainian before Stalin ethnically cleansed it of Ukrainians and their culture. The territorial concessions can start there.
Yes he is.
So basically ron is just a weak Copycat who doesnt want to put in real effort, have his own real agenda, other than to thwart Trump?
God deals with people deceptive and such as ron andhis pals. They likely wont like what they get in the end.
Rove is a anti Trump warmongering snake
There’s a million links at that link...
America is the global hegemon. That comes with privilaged like the dollar being the world’s reserve currency and a privilaged economic position but ig also comes with a responsibility to help secure global peace, the pac Americana.
This is not unimportant when it comes to America’s national interests either, if America retreats from the world, the USD will eventually lose its position as world’s reserve currency and that would have catastrophic implications for America’s economy. You would certainly see the decline of the US relative to the PRC accelerate and arrive by the late 2030s rather than the 2050s as most projections suggest.
And if Russia is rewarded with a victory due to western indifference and failure to support, that is going to be a green light to other military powers to seize an opportunity to grab land off other nations they perceive to be weaker than themselves, China in particular, and also means the non-proliferation is dead. Every country with an active territorial dispute with one of its neighbours will be rushing to acquire nukes to deter an attack that America can not be relied on to be deterred any other way, and this is going to mean a lot more unstable sketchy countries developing WMDs and increasing the likelihood of a global nuclear conflict.
For the sake of future global peace and the majntainance of the current world order, Ukraine has to be supported and Russia cannot be allowed to win.
Levin has exposed himself as just another loud mouthed performer who does whatever Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnel, and the Bush clan tell him to do. He is farcical at this point.
Apparently, you didn't learn anything from your adventures in grade school?
Yeah, I learned bullies don’t stop bullying you or those weaker than them unless you drop them on their ass, and that it sends a message to the other bullies too...
it’s under “DeSantis is Right about ukraine”. I should have said this in the first place.
If i put a link to it, it would have brought us to this thread
The most recent public statement I can find is this Facebook post:
Yes, I figured that was about as much as you learned in grade school and beyond. Look up Dunning–Kruger effect if you want greater insight into your particular path.
Expecting the Biden administration to handle any foreign policy matter in a prudent and efficient manner is insanity. No good can come from the hundreds of $Billions currently being squandered in Ukraine. Of course worse are the hundreds of thousands of lives being lost or destroyed... all because you believe that Biden, AOC, Lindsay Graham, Mitch McConnel, Schumer, Pelosi and et.al. are capable of accomplishing something other than funneling money back to themselves. We have no strategic interests in Ukraine it is part of Russia and has for over a thousand years. There is nothing that this group of gools is going to do that will change that.
Cool thanks
It’s good to get FR Far and wide.
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