Battle of Bakhmut: Ukrainian soldiers worry Russians begin to ‘taste victory’

Kyiv Independent via Yahoo ^ | March 15th, 2023 | Asami Terajima

[hcmama]

a Ukrainian soldier Volodymyr, 54, said he felt ill-prepared.

That line right there tells you all you need to know.

[Bogie]

No pension needed anymore.

[Timber Rattler]

Make me.

[hcmama]

It makes me sick to see people cheering on this slaughter.

"Let's all show how tough we are by supporting the Euro-poors killing each other!"

[hcmama]

And snorting a few lines.

[hcmama]

The poster can speak for himself, but I concluded long ago that short of direct US/NATO intervention, no influx of American money or armaments will result in a Ukrainian victory.

If that is the calculus (and I don't even see the loudest of the Ukraine hawks saying that the United States should directly intervene) then it is ethically and morally wrong to encourage this continued slaughter rather than pressure both sides to reach a negotiated settlement.

[JonPreston]

Tough guy for a Neocon :)

[Salohcin]

Russia was violating the Minsk II agreement before the ink was even dry.

[Petrosius]

because it could all been avoided 1 month before the war started with the simple agreement of Ukraine not joining Nato,

Agreed. But you are discounting why Ukraine wanted to join NATO: because of Russian aggression, including their invasion in 2014.

and stop shelling Donbas.

A falsehood spread by Russia. Ukraine was not indiscriminately shelling the civilian population in Donbas.

Also keeping to the Minsk 2014 agreement

More Russian propaganda. Ukraine did pass a law granting autonomy to Donbas. It was Russia who broke the Minsk agreement by not withdrawing its forces and blocking the vote that had be planned by the Ukrainian government.

[Right_Wing_Madman]

Authoritative link, please.

Branko Marcetic of Jacobin reported this back in April 2022. When Boris Johnson visited Kiev in April, "he told Zelensky the West would not recognize any peace deal he signed with Putin."

https://jacobin.com/2023/02/ukraine-russia-war-naftali-bennett-negotiations-peace

Also in August 2022, Fiona Hill confirmed this in a piece published by Foreign Affairs when several high-ranking US security officials told her “Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement” and "the decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv"

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent

Don't you remember last year when all the Zeepers called Fiona Hill (who's super neocon by the way) a lying piece of filth? Try to keep up.

[Petrosius]

Pressuring both sides means both sides, and not just Ukrainian capitulation. What would you pressure Russia to do?

[Hiddigeigei]

"Russia was violating the Minsk II agreement before the ink was even dry."
The so-called Minsk Agreement was never signed by either side. It was an agreement to negotiate.

[ansel12]

People overlook how incredibly successful this past year has already been in taking Russia off the table for years to come.

All this is about Russia, although Russia has proven to have been such an illusion that it is understandable that the possibility of a Ukraine victory is now seen as not totally far-fetched.

[Right_Wing_Madman]

Ukraine did pass a law granting autonomy to Donbas.

Ukraine did the opposite. The final nail in the Minsk coffin occurred in January 2018 when Ukraine's parliament passed a law re-integrating Donbass with Kiev, in direct violation of Minsk. After that, the Russians began preparations for a second invasion of Ukraine.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainian-parliament-passes-donbas-reintegration-bill/28982677.html

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-01/18/c_136906230.htm

[Salohcin]

You are not even close to breaking correct. The Minsk II Agreement was signed on February 12, 2015 by:

— Separatist’s leaders Alexander Zakharchenko and Igor Plotnitsky

— Swiss diplomat and OSCE representative Heidi Tagliavini

— Former president of Ukraine and Ukrainian representative Leonid Kuchma

— Russian Ambassador to Ukraine and Russian representative Mikhail Zurabov

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

[caww]

Ukrainian solders have been “tasting Russian victory” for a long while in on streets and in fields of blood. I’m looking forward to when “Actor” Zelensky is removed on way or another....he will not be allowed to stay indefinitely no matter how this conflict plays out.

[caww]

I suspect Zelensky’s already been told what he has to settle for which he isn’t going to like even a little bit.

[Salohcin]

Russia violated the agreement soon after it was signed in 2015 by refusing to turn over the border to Ukrainian control, refusing to remove heavy weapons and foreign fighters, refusing to hold local elections under Ukrainian law and OSCE supervision, and multiple violations of the ceasefire. It was never a good faith agreement by the Russians.

[Petrosius]

The Minsk agreement was for autonomy in a united Ukraine, not for independence. In any case, that was a dispute within Ukraine and not the concern of a foreign power. At least you acknowledge that this is the second invasion. If it were not for Russia’s first invasion in 2014 there would have been no need for the Minsk agreement in the first place.

[hcmama]

We have very no leverage with the Russians. They are not going to trust any deal brokered by the Americans and the Americans will not trust any deal brokered by actors that are friendly to Russia.

Unless they make some dramatic breakthrough on the battlefield in the next 6 months or so, I do expect at some point the Ukrainians will be told they have to face some harsh facts on the ground. The longer conflicts go on the more unsustainable they become. There is no way the US is going to continue funding a grinding war of attrition to the tune of $100 billion dollars annually.