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What the Neocons Got Wrong - And How the Iraq War Taught Me About the Limits of American Power
Foreign Affairs ^ | 3/10/23 | Max Boot

Posted on 03/11/2023 5:45:38 AM PST by JonPreston

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To: Berlin_Freeper
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has exposed the stoogery of the Libertarians.

Ukraine is a war worth fighting. We have no men there getting killed. We just send money and weaponry. Iraq was 100% useless war. Afghanistan was worth going in for 1-2 years to smash Bin Laden and the Taliban. Then get out. Instead, Afghanistan devolved into a 20 year war and meals on wheels program to bring them Democracy, and to free and educate the Afghani women. This is a fool's errand in Muslim nations. Let them have their dictators and wacko fundamentalists.

All we want from Muslim nations is oil and gas that we and Europe and Japan, Korea, Taiwan pay for.

81 posted on 03/11/2023 11:10:03 AM PST by dennisw ("You don't have to like it. You just have to do it")
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To: Reily

I agree with all that you just said.


82 posted on 03/11/2023 11:18:48 AM PST by Timber Rattler ("To hold a pen is to be at war." --Voltaire)
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To: JonPreston
Cease Neocon.

Or else what?

83 posted on 03/11/2023 11:29:57 AM PST by Timber Rattler ("To hold a pen is to be at war." --Voltaire)
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To: JonPreston; wildcard_redneck; canuck_conservative
The Canadian Cuck claims he needs airfare to Ukraine in order to fight 🇺🇦

Don’t they have GoFundMe in Canada? 😏

84 posted on 03/11/2023 11:34:33 AM PST by Allegra
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To: wildcard_redneck

I posted what I am doing this summer (2 weeks beach vacation). You reply with 16mm homemade films from 35 years ago. LoL!


85 posted on 03/11/2023 12:58:48 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: wildcard_redneck

LOL.


86 posted on 03/11/2023 1:26:19 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: napscoordinator

Neocon should have been a negative as early as the Reagan years, when in true Trotskyite fashion they spent their energy waging war on non-Neo conservatives in order to consolidate their own power and influence.

They succeeded, becoming the influence peddlers of the Bush presidencies, especially Dubya’s.


87 posted on 03/11/2023 1:28:53 PM PST by Pelham
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To: newzjunkey; JonPreston

“They really thought the success in rebuilding Europe and modernizing Japan after WW2 were repeatable in Iraq and even Afghanistan.”

The verdict is in.

Only fools believe that religion is irrelevant and that thousand year old Islamic cultures can be turned into Kansas. Just invade, paste on a veneer of voting and blue jeans and voila!

Germany is a cousin of the United States. The same basic culture, Christendom.

Japan was open to and had been trying to imitate Western political culture since the 1880s. It didn’t have to be imposed upon them after their militarism was defeated.


88 posted on 03/11/2023 1:42:56 PM PST by Pelham
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To: wildcard_redneck
   
89 posted on 03/11/2023 1:49:30 PM PST by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: TalBlack

“Saddam maybe?”

That war fed the hubris that we need to be Global Policeman. Saddam spent 10 years warring with Iran and got nowhere. He was an admirer of Joe Stalin, not radical Islam.


90 posted on 03/11/2023 1:52:17 PM PST by Pelham
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To: JonPreston

“...was that the United States could not simply topple the old regimes and leave chaos in their wake.”

Which is EXACTLY what Bush and Obama did.


91 posted on 03/11/2023 1:53:23 PM PST by Fledermaus (It's time to get rid of the Three McStooges; Mitch, Kevin and Ronna!)
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To: JonPreston; wildcard_redneck

Boot is NOT Canadian. He’s a Russian Jewish immigrant to the US. You must be confusing him with David Frum.


92 posted on 03/11/2023 2:27:53 PM PST by Jacob Kell (Parents are better off sending their kids to vocational schools.)
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To: Jacob Kell; JonPreston
"Boot is NOT Canadian. He’s a Russian Jewish immigrant to the US. You must be confusing him with David Frum."

No, we're talking about Zeeper Canuck_Conservative who I affectionately call Cuck Canuck.

93 posted on 03/11/2023 3:27:56 PM PST by wildcard_redneck (Biden will mess up the Ukraine worse than Afghanistan.)
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To: JonPreston
The Neo- Coms used the Jacksonian's red hot anger at 911 for their own nefarious ends. OnceaTroskyite always a Trosktite. “ It is a splendid thing when a hore gets religion, it is taking things too far when she seeks to take over the Church.” Russel Kirk, a REAL Jacksonian Conservative.
94 posted on 03/11/2023 3:54:39 PM PST by cowboyusa (There is no co- existence with Pinks and Reds)
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To: Alberta's Child

Once a red Trotskyite always s red traitor.


95 posted on 03/11/2023 3:56:32 PM PST by cowboyusa (There is no co- existence with Pinks and Reds)
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To: wardaddy
I'm very pro Israel, but extremely Anti Neo- Con. You also get some people who think Russia is still the USSR.
96 posted on 03/11/2023 4:00:43 PM PST by cowboyusa (There is no co- existence with Pinks and Reds)
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To: Bratch

Traditional conservatives, such as U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald
Rumsfeld, wanted to teach the Taliban and Saddam Hussein a lesson
and then depart each country as quickly as possible.


One thing that was clear to me from a historical perspective were that broadly there were two approaches which could be effective:

1. a relatively light approach as attributed to Rumsfeld here (though it had to be powerful yet within the limits of what that power could do), and

2. A heavy approach, which is essentially colonization, which we would never have the commitment to do.


97 posted on 03/11/2023 7:58:56 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Bratch

Traditional conservatives, such as U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald
Rumsfeld, wanted to teach the Taliban and Saddam Hussein a lesson
and then depart each country as quickly as possible.


One thing that was clear to me from a historical perspective were that broadly there were two *military* approaches which could be effective:

1. a relatively light approach as attributed to Rumsfeld here (though it had to be powerful yet within the limits of what that power could do), and

2. A heavy approach, which is essentially colonization, which we would never have the commitment to do.


98 posted on 03/11/2023 8:02:00 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: JonPreston

Too little, to late. FU Max Boot.


99 posted on 03/11/2023 8:52:40 PM PST by jpsb
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To: JonPreston

Hush, Russian troll.


100 posted on 03/18/2023 8:03:37 AM PDT by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism. )
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