Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Russia sustains up to 30,000 casualties in ongoing Battle of Bakhmut
Army Technology, GlobalData ^ | March 7, 2023 | Richard Thomas

Posted on 03/07/2023 5:39:19 PM PST by familyop

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041 next last
To: familyop

The problem with this baloney is that Wagner never had 30,000 troops at any point in time, and they don’t use human wave tactics on top of it.


21 posted on 03/07/2023 7:39:41 PM PST by NorseViking
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: familyop
https://sonar21.com/the-west-does-a-back-flip-on-bakhmuts-strategic-importance/

Russia has lopped off the arms and legs of the Ukrainians and President Zelensky and General Zalushny insist it is only a flesh wound. This absurdity would normally be great grist for a comedy sketch. But there is nothing humorous about this war, it is a profound tragedy. Tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers are being sacrificed needlessly because NATO wants to use Ukraine as a proxy to fight Russia. And behind these horrendous casualties there are hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian mothers, fathers and siblings mourning the loss of a loved one.

22 posted on 03/07/2023 7:41:19 PM PST by Kazan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NorseViking
. . . and they don’t use human wave tactics on top of it.

These are not 1980's Iran-Iraq style human waves. It's a couple of squads advancing. Twenty men or so. Media love the term though.

23 posted on 03/07/2023 7:55:28 PM PST by IndispensableDestiny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: IndispensableDestiny

It is a “shock troop” tactic, where the small groups are conducting reconnaissance in force from behind the artillery barrage, then return at night to finish off the defenders.
Has been this way since WWII hence the stories of “Russian hordes” by old and new Nazis.


24 posted on 03/07/2023 8:03:27 PM PST by NorseViking
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: familyop
https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-soldiers-in-bakhmut-our-troops-are-not-being-protected

Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut: ‘Our troops are not being protected’

Russia’s relentless assault on Bakhmut is sacrificing waves and waves of unprepared men being sent to their deaths. But multiple defenders of this embattled city in Donetsk Oblast feel that they are in a similar boat, according to interviews with more than a dozen soldiers currently fighting in or around Bakhmut.

During their brief visits to the nearby town of Kostiantynivka, Ukrainian infantrymen told the Kyiv Independent of unprepared, poorly-trained battalions being thrown into the front line meat grinder to survive as best they could with little support from armored vehicles, mortars, artillery, drones and tactical information.

“We don’t get any support,” says a soldier named Serhiy, who has been fighting on the front lines in Bakhmut, sitting down with his friend, also named Serhiy, for a conversation in a small cafe in the Kostiantynivka market. Both men are in their 40s but one of them is a bit older than the other.

The soldiers lack about everything that would support their defense:

They say that Russian artillery, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers are often allowed to strike Ukrainian positions for hours or days without being shut down by Ukrainian heavy weapons. Some complained of poor coordination and situational awareness, allowing this to happen or making it even worse.

Mortarmen spoke of extreme ammunition scarcity and having to use weapons dating back to World War II. Drones that are supposed to provide critical reconnaissance information are also scarce and are being l

All this leads to terrifying casualties of both dead and wounded. "The battalion came in in the middle of December… between all the different platoons, there were 500 of us," says Borys, a combat medic from Odesa Oblast fighting around Bakhmut. "A month ago, there were literally 150 of us."

“When you go out to the position, it’s not even a 50/50 chance that you’ll come out of there (alive),” says the older Serhiy. “It’s more like 30/70.”

The soldiers describe the Russian operation as small reconnaissance followed by artillery fire. This is repeated again and again until it has reached the desired result. The very reasonable application of this tactic is why I disregard claims of 'waves or Russian cannon fodder storming forward' or of 'high Russian losses'. They are obviously nonsense:

The older Serhiy says that the enemy likes to send a team of three or four expendable foot soldiers to attack and make the Ukrainians expose themselves by shooting at them. At that point, the more elite forces zero in on the defenders’ position.

Once they begin exchanging fire, the Ukrainians are struck with heavier weapons like Russian mortars and rockets from Grad multiple launch rocket systems or BMP infantry fighting vehicles and BTR armored personnel carriers with machine guns.

“They get the positions where we are, establish the coordinates, then they hit us from seven to nine kilometers out with mortars,” as well as from closer by with grenade launchers, says the older Serhiy. “They wait for the house to fall so we have to jump out. The building catches fire and then they try to finish us off.”

“Their birds come out and they chase us with fire,” adds the younger Serhiy, referring to Russian UAVs, like quadcopters and Orlan-10 fixed wing drones that spot distant heavy weapons. “They hit accurately.”

As Russians destroy more and more buildings, Ukrainians keep losing more places where they can reliably take cover. Borys the medic says people have been lost when their entrenched positions collapsed from heavy Russian fire, suffocating them.

“I’ll put it like this, we should get our people out because if we don’t take off, then in the next few weeks, it’s going to be bad,” says Oleksandr. A mortarman named Illia agrees that Bakhmut is “practically encircled.”

For lack of ammunition there is no Ukrainian counter artillery fire. Infantry fighting vehicles are held back from the front. The little trained Territorial Brigades are sent in at night to be killed the next morning:

Multiple soldiers say Bakhmut troops are barely given enough time to learn to shoot a rifle – sometimes their training is just 2 weeks, before they’re dropped into the hottest parts of the most intense current battle of the war. They would have preferred for troops to get a minimum of two or three months of training before being deployed to such a hot spot. “Two weeks’ live training and they’re sent here. You can’t do that,” says the older Serhiy. “Or it’s a person who once served in the army, how long ago was that? Obviously they forgot everything.”

“We were promised that we wouldn’t be sent to the zero line right away, that at first we’d be sent to the second or third line,” he continues. “And then we came here in the middle of the night and they immediately sent us to Bakhmut.”

...

According to both soldiers named Serhiy, most brigades are insufficiently trained and lack the experience for an environment as brutal as Bakhmut. People are taken at night to a place they’d never seen before and the battle starts in the morning.

“This is why positions are abandoned, people are there for the first time,” says the younger Serhiy. “I went to a position three times and was given six people who hadn’t fought at all before. We had a few dead and wounded that had to be evacuated… Our people are not being protected.”

Oleksandr confirms that while some battalions fighting in Bakhmut are well-trained and ready, most of them aren’t and many were thrown in at night without much preparation. “Yes, that’s true, my battalion was not prepared,” he says. After five months without a single break from the fighting, only half of Oleksandr’s battalion is left, he says.

“They shouldn’t have rushed to throw everyone in there,” says the younger Serhiy. “Better to abandon those positions, who cares? It’s better to properly train people.”

25 posted on 03/07/2023 8:16:47 PM PST by Kazan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: packagingguy

We have contractors (very lucrative business — global market estimated at $100 billion back in 2002). NYT* article about it here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210323133607/https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/business/america-s-for-profit-secret-army.html

Not the same as mercenary fighting forces, of course. We tend to train and equip people in other countries rather than fight directly as mercs. Of course, there are Americans fighting as mercenaries in various countries for various outfits, but not that many, and these outfits are not officially sanctioned by our government as contractors are.

In Vietnam, we trained Montagnards:

https://www.blueridgenow.com/story/news/2018/03/29/green-beret-recounts-3-vietnam-tours-training-mercenaries/12886452007/

And also used South Koreans:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/korea-watch/forgotten-role-south-korean-mercenaries-vietnam-war-148061

Our doings in Afghanistan (we funded the mujahedeen, some of whom became the Taliban):

https://www.vox.com/world/22634008/us-troops-afghanistan-cold-war-bush-bin-laden

*Note: there is an error in the NYT piece. The August 1995 ethnic cleansing was 225,000 to 250,000 per international agencies including UN, UNHCR, ICRC, etc., not 100,000. Plus, another area was ethnically cleansed of 30,000 in May 1995. And yes, MPRI most certainly was there training Croat troops and assisting in lots of other ways.


26 posted on 03/07/2023 9:18:42 PM PST by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: familyop

I’m sorry. From war footage clips I have seen of small unit operations and minimal fire fights, there is no way 30,000 casualties in a day have been sustained.

No way.


27 posted on 03/08/2023 12:10:05 AM PST by griffin (When you have to shoot, SHOOT; don't talk. -Tuco)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: griffin

oops, strike “in a day” and replace with “in 3 months”. Or even “in 6 months”.


28 posted on 03/08/2023 12:11:48 AM PST by griffin (When you have to shoot, SHOOT; don't talk. -Tuco)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: IndispensableDestiny

Wagners use groups of 8 expendables to probe several points simultaneously - when a surviving group or individual finds a weak point, the contract Wagners are sent in.

That way they save their best fighters, but loose a lot of expendables (convicts). Badly wounded are left to die.


29 posted on 03/08/2023 2:45:57 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Go to BobL’s post #5 about Ukraine bombing the Nordstrom pipeline.


30 posted on 03/08/2023 9:17:00 AM PST by RedMonqey ("A republic, if you can keep it" Benjamin Franklin.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: RedMonqey

Your confusing post 13 was to post 9 and doesn’t have anything to do with 5.


31 posted on 03/08/2023 9:40:26 AM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: griffin
"I’m sorry. From war footage clips I have seen of small unit operations and minimal fire fights, there is no way 30,000 casualties in a day have been sustained.

No way.
"

No one said "in a day." The Russians have been trying to take Bakhmut for about 7 months.

32 posted on 03/08/2023 12:29:22 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: familyop

Hi.

Does anyone know the birth stats regarding Russian women?

5.56mm


33 posted on 03/08/2023 12:32:14 PM PST by M Kehoe (Quid Pro Joe and the Ho have got to go)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: griffin

Yevgeny Prigozhin criticizes Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu for comments about ‘almost taking’ city under control

YeniSafak
09:23 . 8/03/2023 Wednesday
AA
https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/head-of-russias-wagner-group-urges-reporters-to-stop-prematurely-reporting-bakhmuts-takeover-3661698

The head of Russia’s Wagner paramilitary group urged journalists Tuesday to stop publishing reports on Russian troops’ seizure of the strategic Ukrainian city of Bakhmut.

In a post on Telegram, Yevgeny Prigozhin also told journalists to stop using the word “cleared” (the territory), noting that if “to clear” means “to kill,” than the killing overnight of the 12,000-20,000 troops that by various estimates are fighting in the city is only possible in movies.

According to Prigozhin, his fighters are doing “everything” to take Bakhmut under their control, but “we are still not given ammunition, military equipment, weapons and vehicles.”

“Sapper shovels after almost a month, by the way, were given (to us),” he said.

Commenting on remarks by Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu, who said Bakhmut has almost been taken, Prigozhin said he has not seen him in the city and does not know why he is saying that.

“Perhaps in order to please the Russian audience. Perhaps to annoy (Ukrainian President Volodymyr) Zelenskyy…And we feel Zelenskyy’s anger on us in full,” he said.

According to Prigozhin, “the heaviest battles are going on day and night, but the Ukrainians are not fleeing anywhere.”

...


34 posted on 03/08/2023 12:37:56 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: M Kehoe

According to https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate, it is 1.6 per Russian female. The US is 1.7.


35 posted on 03/08/2023 12:47:04 PM PST by yuleeyahoo (The nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master and deserves one. Hamilton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: M Kehoe

“Does anyone know the birth stats regarding Russian women?”

Looks like the rate is about 1.8 per woman, nearly the same as here.

Russia Fertility Rate 1950-2023
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate

Sexually transmitted diseases and a high abortion rate are more common there.

Abortion and infertility in Russia
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12289089/

Abortion Remains Top Birth-Control Option In Russia
https://www.rferl.org/a/Abortion_Remains_Top_Birth_Control_Option_Russia/1145849.html


36 posted on 03/08/2023 12:55:42 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: FlyingEagle

As a terminally ignorant soul, you continue to continue to confuse American politics with the war inUkraine


37 posted on 03/08/2023 1:10:00 PM PST by bert ( (KWE. NP. N.C. +12) Juneteenth is inequality day )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: bert

GFY and ESAD, Friend.


38 posted on 03/08/2023 1:38:27 PM PST by FlyingEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: packagingguy

Supposedly they don’t have to abide by Geneva convention rules.

They can be summarily executed or on the other side commit what may be considered war crimes without the host country being held responsible.


39 posted on 03/08/2023 1:48:05 PM PST by CodeJockey ("The duty of a true Patriot is to protect his country from its government.” –Thomas Paine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: familyop

yeah, I corrected myself a bit further down. Good catch. Thanks.


40 posted on 03/08/2023 1:51:50 PM PST by griffin (When you have to shoot, SHOOT; don't talk. -Tuco)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson