Posted on 01/31/2023 6:13:32 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
No; wanting to apply and applying are two entirely different things.
Let’s say I want to join an exclusive, private club. They send me an “action plan,” a series of things I have to perform or make available for approval before I can formally apply. Then, after I have formally applied my application has to be accepted for consideration, and a formal invitation to join the club must be offered to me. Then, there is a long process, or protocol, that must be completed. Once that is done, then I am accepted for membership, and a commitment is signed by me. Next, my membership must be accepted by ALL the current members of the club. And only after that, will I be afforded membership in the club and accepted as a member.
I have just complied with the first step (sent in my CV, credit report, etc.). I now formally apply. I don’t even know if my first step has been deemed acceptable and complete.
That is where Ukraine is vis-a-vis NATO.
“At the beginning of 2008, the Ukrainian President, Prime Minister and head of parliament sent an official letter (the so-called “letter of three”) to apply for the Membership Action Plan.[44][45]..”
Applying for the action plan is a prelude to the first step. Applying for an action plan is just that: Send me an action plan to see if I want to consider joining you, and you can debate whether you want to consider me.
Applying for the action plan is a prelude to the first step. Applying for an action plan is just that: Send me an action plan to see if I want to consider joining you, and you can debate whether you want to consider me.==
C’mon man. “Prelude” or “not prelude” what is a difference for Russia?
We had a treaty signed and ratified. And then our party show intentions to broke our treaty. For us it is no difference when they intended to do it.
Russia leadership must prepare and ready to a worse case scenario for Russia and have a plan how to defend her interests. That is what Putin did actually. He prepared.
Historically Russia indeed did very poor in applications of so called a “soft power” but good enough in applying a hard power. So she does now. It is her way.
To say simple. Russia is a nation of fighters not traders. So she will not spend much time and money to persuade or beg you to do a right thing. She prefer spend her time and money to prepare her for a fight for her interests.
And when time is right she will fight you and win. And in this case if it came to a fight Russia will take MORE than she would if to fulfill a deal.
See. If Ukraine followed Minsk-2 she would have Donbass. But she loses it absolutely now and also Novorossiya. SO longer the war going more Ukraine will lose.
Send Putin to the front . Bare chested, with a deer rifle .
“C’mon man. “Prelude” or “not prelude” what is a difference for Russia?”
Then why didn’t Russia go to war when Poland joined NATO? And Lithuania, and Latvia, and Estonia joined NATO?
I’ll tell you why: Poland and Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia and NATO posed no offensive threat to Russia.
And neither does Ukraine.
But, what Ukraine has that Poland and Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia do not have is the abundance of natural resources that Russia covets.
Russia is a bully and always has been. It is tyrannical and always has been. Russia is insecure and paranoid and is wholly untrustworthy.
And that is not new.
Back in the 16th century Sir Giles Fletcher, the English Ambassador to the Court of Fedor, son of Ivan the Terrible, said this about Russia: “The state and form of government is plain tyrannical. The Russians are kept from travelling so they learn nothing and see nothing of other peoples. It is doubtful which is worse: The country’s cruelty or intemperance. As for the truth of his word, the Russians for the most part make small regard of it so they may gain by a lie and breach of promise. And it may be said that the Russians believe nothing another man says, or says themselves.”
Then why didn’t Russia go to war when Poland joined NATO? And Lithuania, and Latvia, and Estonia joined NATO?
I’ll tell you why: Poland and Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia and NATO posed no offensive threat to Russia.==
Actually good question. I’ve thought Russia should resist it. But that time Russia was in turmoil and there were liberal leadership in Russia and Russians opinion about West was friendly. SO Russia let it go then.
But Baltic states is a different story they are bordering Russia. And also some of them (Estonians) possess ancient Russian lands.
Actually Estonian and Finns are relatives of us. Like ukies. Or Byelorussians. Or Hungarians.
Ancient Russian tribes began as a melt of Slavs, Finnish and Northmen aka Vikings. Historically the Viking yarl(king) Rurik founded their ancient Rus and he became a first ruler of Rus. Founded a first dynasty. We are of Viking decent and blood.
Even Russian language stays aside of any Slav languages. I mean we understand them but they not. That is because our language is also a melt of Slav, Finn and Northmen languages.
So them to NATO, Russia objected but not listened to. So it began the change of relationship with West.
West decided then to ignore the Russia so the people opinion of West began changing to opposite. Moreover I think the rise of Vlad Putin to power happened because the liberals lost much of Russian interests and hence a popularity with people.
SO I think Russia and NATO must close this problem with joining Baltic states and Finland to NATO. NATO must not include them but made them a buffer states.
Or else it will bring us another war a direct war. Sooner or later. IMHO it is inevitable.
Back in the 16th century Sir Giles Fletcher, the English Ambassador to the Court of Fedor, son of Ivan the Terrible, said this about Russia: ==
Just one more Russophobe.
The Russians are kept from travelling so they learn nothing and see nothing of other peoples.==
Lie. Russia in ancient time was a part of Silk Way. So Russian merchants traveled with merchandises to China and India on east. Traded with Iran, Turkey, Arab countries on a constant basis. And way before western merchants got to these markets by sea.
In Moscow there is a ancient Guest Court where those foreign merchants made their trades. There were a lot of them all over the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gostiny_dvor
So this shmuck Fletcher are just a liar on Russia.
As for the truth of his word, the Russians for the most part make small regard of it so they may gain by a lie and breach of promise.==
Oh yeah. Who tells))).. Especially with this new revelation on western “faith” with Minsk agreements. Western liars you not notice. Tell me about the “log in a own eye”.
“Ancient Russian tribes began as a melt of Slavs, Finnish and Northmen aka Vikings.”
Most sources trace the origin of the Slavs to an area around present-day Poland and Czechoslovakia (I know, the latter has been separated into the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic). Vikings came down from the north to raid, etc. Any Viking genes the Slavs carry likely resulted from rape.
“Just one more Russophobe.”
Well, then everyone is a Russophobe, because the sentiment is pretty much universal.
“Russia in ancient time was a part of Silk Way.”
Ancient time? The late antiquity period is considered the end of “ancient time,” and the late antiquity period ended in the 7th century, about the time of the rise of islam. In the 7th century there was no Russia; there were just nomadic bands of doubtful ancestry. What is now southern Russia and Ukraine was the Khazar Khaganate, comprised of Turkic peoples. The earliest East Slavic tribes recorded as having expanded to the upper Volga in the 9th to 10th centuries are the Vyatichi and Krivichi.
By the “Silk Way” I assume you mean the “Silk Road.” It went nowhere near what eventually became Russia. In its heyday in the 1st century CE there wasn’t even a Russia. The Silk Road ended in 1453 when the Ottoman Empire shut down trade from China. Varangian (Scandinavian) traders would bring their goods to Lake Ladoga then float them down rivers and carry them across portages to the Black Sea, where they would build boats and sail them to Constantinople (present day Istanbul). From there caravans would extend out, some of which took to the Silk Road. The same route would be followed bring goods from the Far East into Europe. At that time there was no Russia, there was just a vast expanse of land with navigable rivers that was principally used as an area to go through.
“Oh yeah. Who tells))).. Especially with this new revelation on western ‘faith’ with Minsk agreements. Western liars you not notice. Tell me about the ‘log in a own eye’.”
Well, I know English is not your native language, as you had previously said you were Russia. But, I think I get the gist of what you are trying to say.
Here is a summary of the Minsk Agreements:
MINSK I:
Ukraine and the Russian-backed separatists agreed a 12-point ceasefire deal in the capital of Belarus in September 2014. The agreement quickly broke down, with violations by both sides.
MINSK II:
Representatives of Russia, Ukraine, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and the leaders of two pro-Russian separatist regions signed a 13-point agreement in February 2015 in Minsk. The leaders of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine gathered there at the same time and issued a declaration of support for the deal.
The deal set out a series of military and political steps that remain unimplemented. A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms. Point 10, for example, calls for the withdrawal of all foreign armed formations and military equipment from the two disputed regions, Donetsk and Luhansk: Ukraine says this refers to forces from Russia, but Moscow denies it has any there.
By the “Silk Way” I assume you mean the “Silk Road.” It went nowhere near what eventually became Russia. In its heyday in the 1st century CE there wasn’t even a Russia. The Silk Road ended in 1453 when the Ottoman Empire shut down trade from China. ==
No it not true. Ottoman Empire may shut the route thru herself. But way from Middle Asia to Russia of that time wasn’t under control of Turks at all. It was under control Golden Horde. So the Silk Way thru Russia worked until westerns powers made China a colony. It happened in 18 century.
Even after this Russian trades with China continued thru Siberian route. Actually I say that the trades with China did never stop form ancient time to today.
SO this british russophobe said BS on Russia. Russian merchants travel 2 continents(Europe and Asia) from one side to another from Atlantic to Pacific. But is is about 5000 miles way.
Well, then everyone is a Russophobe, because the sentiment is pretty much universal.==
Not everyone but just members of power elites of western colonial powers. The reason is simple. Russia successfully resisted attempts to colonize her from West. So it is evil feelings of losers.
The deal set out a series of military and political steps that remain unimplemented. ===
Yeah and why it wasn’t implemented? Because as Hollande and MErkel told us recently the deal was a ruse to make time for Ukraine rearmament and preparations.
So Merkel and Hollande are western liars. And you and other russophobes don’t notice that.
“Yeah and why it wasn’t implemented? Because as Hollande and MErkel told us recently the deal was a ruse to make time for Ukraine rearmament and preparations.”
That’s NOT what they said. But, you just vomit out what your Russian handlers tell you to.
The Kyiv Independent: In an interview with the German newspaper Die Zeit, Angela Merkel said about the Minsk protocols that ‘It was obvious that the conflict was going to be frozen, that the problem was not solved, but it just gave Ukraine precious time.’
Do you also believe that the negotiations in Minsk were intended to delay Russian advances in Ukraine?
François Hollande: Yes, Angela Merkel is right on this point.
Since 2014, Ukraine has strengthened its military posture. Indeed, the Ukrainian army was completely different from that of 2014. It was better trained and equipped. It is the merit of the Minsk agreements to have given the Ukrainian army this opportunity.
So West intension of negotiation was just to make time for Ukraine to rearm. Hollande confirmed.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.