Posted on 01/25/2023 4:51:54 AM PST by tlozo
Good! But the Ukrainian must maintain and repair them. This is a test.
...if the U.S. sends the Ukes any Abrams tanks, it will be necessary to send U.S. troops to train the Ukes and teach them how to maintain these somewhat complicated beasts...there will be American casualties, I fear...
Tanks gone -- just like the 1000's of tanks the Ukes lost in the last year.
If they are anything like other German vehicles, they should run okay, but the Ukrainians better equip them all with rolls of black electrical tape to cover the "Check Engine" and other warning lights.
Abrams won’t show up for a long time. They could be shipped over, but they cannot be supported (by anyone). The US needs to build a logistical supply chain for these things. That will take serious time and we won’t put the Abrams in the field without it. So this is (to some extent) political signalling that helps justify Germany in freeing the Leopards. Their tanks will be on the field soon. Ours will not.
This is the second time Germany has declared war on Russia, and the results will be the same. Germans are so very dopey in matters of war.
“...there will be American casualties, I fear...”
This has been discussed at length. My understanding is that if there are westerners in Ukraine, they will be contractors and not US military. Trust me on this, these contractors will be making many times their normal salary. Also, they will likely be well behind the lines. If I had the correct skills and fewer years on the clock I’d consider going.
I think the difference between a Lepard and a T-72 is similar to the difference between, say, a ‘56 Studebaker and an eighties Ford race car. Everything should be sort of similar and there will be a lot of plug and play modules that will get shot-gunned during the repair process. The Ukrainians, if they have enough spare parts will do okay.
Also, is anyone sending bridge equipment and recovery vehicles? The Ukrainian bridges are rated for 45 tons and the tanks are 55 tons. And, if one gets stuck the Ukrainians likely have no way to move them.
Ukraine, since day one, has generally refused to get into a tank-versus-tank strategy. They optimized on anti-tank weapons, and getting the Russian tanks into situations where refueling simply wasn’t going to occur.
No one has an accurate count of either side on lost tanks...it’s safe to say Russia has lost a minimum of a thousand tanks (probably not the 2,000 that some suggest). The Russian figure on Ukrainian lost tanks is a comedy act, with claims of three times the inventory on day one....doesn’t sell.
If Russia was planning big on a spring offensive (invasion #2)...they are in a much weaker position because of tank losses. Logistically, there’s no advantage for the Russians anymore.
Training can be done in Poland.
Russia continues to super militarize Ukraine.
With Polish training, the Russians have absolutely nothing to fear.
German Tanks emblazoned with the Iron Cross rolling across Ukraine to take on Russian Tanks, haven’t we seen this movie before ??
We’ll soon find out if history does in fact repeat itself.
Yohann Michel, a research analyst for defense and military affairs at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said such tanks could allow Ukraine to go onto the offensive in the 11-month-old conflict that has been stalemated for months following two key Ukrainian counteroffensives that recaptured areas occupied by Russian forces for months in the northeast and south.
“In this type of conflict, it's just not possible to carry out large-scale offensives without the full variety of armored combat equipment and armored vehicles, and tanks are a part of that," he said. In addition to Main Battle Tanks, or MBTs, like the Leopard 2, others include infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
Western deliveries of Leopard 2s could help equip Ukraine with needed high-caliber munitions to replace its own dwindling Soviet-era stockpiles, opening a new avenue for supplies of Western firepower to get to Ukraine, he said.
Raths noted that the Leopard 2 and similar Western tanks are more agile than T-models used by Russia, which can't reverse at speed, for example.
“Imagine a boxer who cannot move freely in the ring, but only in one direction,” he said. “The other boxer, who can move in all directions, has a big advantage and that it is the case with the Leopards.”
Still, even Western MBTs are vulnerable to aerial attacks, or anti-tank infantry while in forests and urban areas, highlighting the importance of anti-aircraft and reconnaissance support, said Raths.
With similar numbers of tanks on both sides, Leopards 2 and similar tanks could give Ukraine the upper hand, especially given the poor tactical performance of Russian troops during the war, he said.
“The Ukrainians shine through creative, dynamic and often very clean warfare,” Raths said. “So it could well be that if Ukraine's operational offensive were to begin, the Russians would have real problems countering it.”
https://www.outlookindia.com/international/explained-what-is-leopard-2-tank-what-difference-would-it-make-to-ukraine-war--news-256197
“This is the second time Germany has declared war on Russia”
Pretty ignorant of history aren’t you? Or does your world begin in 1939?
“Training can be done in Poland.”
Likely that, or we just fly them to Fort Benning.
Does history escape you Europeans, or does Germany’s war-like belligerence leak out?
“If you don’t send MBTs to Ukraine, we’ll blow another one of your pipelines, SUCKA!” - Uncle Sammy (Gravano)
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