Posted on 01/22/2023 7:03:49 PM PST by Mariner
PARIS (Reuters) -Germany's foreign minister said on Sunday her government would not stand in the way if Poland wants to send its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, in a possible breakthrough for Kyiv which wants the tanks for its fight against Russia's invasion.
Ukrainian officials have been calling on Western allies to supply them with the modern German-made tanks for months - but Berlin has so far held back from sending them, or allowing other NATO countries to do so.
Asked what would happen if Poland went ahead and sent its Leopard 2 tanks without German approval, Annalena Baerbock said on France's LCI TV: "For the moment the question has not been asked, but if we were asked we would not stand in the way."
Her remarks appeared to go further than German Chancellor Olaf Scholz's comments at a summit in Paris earlier on Sunday that all decisions on weapons deliveries would be made in coordination with allies including the United States.
Germany has been under heavy pressure to let Leopards go to Ukraine. But Scholz's Social Democrat party is traditionally sceptical of military involvements and wary of sudden moves that could cause Moscow to further escalate.
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
Will Poland actually send them? If so, how many?
How many Leopard tanks can Ukraine expect to receive from all countries?
Question.
In the age of drone warfare, can a slew of inexpensive drones take out a tank that costs orders of magnitude more?
Are tanks the battleships of WWII, IOW the last of their kind before obsolescence?
IDK, that’s why I’m asking.
I think it’s the advanced man portable anti tank missiles that put tanks at risk in the modern era.
A couple of guys in a Humvee should be able to carry a dozen and therefore take out a dozen.
Maybe “next-gen” missiles will be required to destory “next-gen” tanks.
Until a swordfish torpedo plane took out the rudder, the Bismarck was the most feared Battleship of WWII, and hardly obsolete.
The Leopard dates to 1979...but these are upgraded/modern versions.
Though hardly “next gen”
As if a dozen tanks will make any difference whatsoever in this war. Zelensky and his buddies will probably just wind up selling them on the black market anyway.
Russian Terror Army must be worse than we know, considering how long they been failing against such corruption.
Will they send? Who knows, but Poland is receiving new South Korean K2 tanks and US Abrams tanks. Poland has about 250 Leopard 2s. In total, there are around 2,000 Leopard 2 vehicles spread across Europe
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/29036
‼️🇬🇧🇺🇦In addition to tanks, the UK is going to send attack helicopters to Ukraine.
The British edition of the Mirror, citing a source from the defense sector, writes that the UK will send not only tanks, but also four attack helicopters equipped with Hellfire missiles to Ukraine.
According to the publication, the Apache AH64 E, the most modern version of these helicopters, will be sent. Each helicopter can be equipped with 16 Hellfire anti-tank rounds, 76 70mm Hydra rockets, and a 30-mm chain gun.
“Apache will be a game changer.” The tanks will arrive first, and it will take some time before the helicopters can be deployed. Other NATO members will now follow suit. Russia has thousands of tanks, so more than four Apaches would be needed to deliver a strategic strike. “But from a tactical point of view, this is an important step,” the source said.
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Battleships were never really obsolete other than for ship-to-ship combat. We used battleships in Korea, Vietnam and in the Middle East for shelling land-based targets. The long range of their guns and their thick armor made them ideal for that mission.
We didn't sink the Bismarck,
No matter what they say,
For when we saw the German ship,
We sailed the other way.
--Homer & Jethro
Instead of a huge armored shell, protect the crew members individually and have their armored shells mounted on metal supports that will bend or rotate upon a direct hit.
Unit cost might be around $250K.
I thought this would happen.
Poland has @250 of a few versions 2A4 and 2A5, plus some Polish upgraded ones.
All were to be replaced by US M1’s, which are arriving now.
So all 250 should be available at some point, probably this year.
Yes they will send them. Im guessing up to 50 initially, depending on how fast Poland can get M1’s in service.
The Bismarck was obsolete. It could not operate effectively on the high seas because of allied air power and a bomber took out the Bismark’s rudder and English battleships took out the wounded ship a few days later.
Surface ships and tanks are obsolete and when the next shooting war starts between America and a near peer competitor the carriers will not last long.
Thats an initial batch. As replacement tanks come in to Poland, which is ongoing, there will be other tanks freed up for donation. Poland is now receiving US M1’s and Korean K2’s.
A bunch of other countries are mentioned as being in the Leopard II donation consortium - Sweden, Finland, the Netherlands.
Other countries with substantial holdings include Spain, which has @100 2A4s in storage.
Final number that could get donated, in 2023, probably 400-500.
I think these are older stock, i.e. 2A4.
Not total junk if well maintained. Mid 80s tech and comparable to an M1A1 (baseline, even the A1 received significant upgrades over the years even though it was still called an A1).
The question is if these tanks have been updated and well serviced. If it’s the same as the original A4, then it’s really not that great of a tank today (it’s ~ a 38 year old model/design). Lot’s of threat main gun ammo, ATGMs, RPGs can knock them out with ease.
Poland is buying new K2 tanks from Korea (a very nice tank BTW) and our M1. I’d imagine they are donating their old stock of L2A4 for the cause in Ukraine.
>>> Germany’s foreign minister said on Sunday her government would not stand in the way if Poland wants to send its Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, in a possible breakthrough <<<
Seems to go hand in hand with this, from just a few days ago:
Germany’s defense minister resigns amid criticism over handling of Ukraine war
https://www.foxnews.com/world/germanys-defense-minister-resigns-criticism-handling-ukraine-war
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