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The NATO Alliance Is Holding Strong on Ukraine. But Fractures Are Emerging.
NYT via Yahoo ^ | January 21st, 2023 | David E. Sanger and Eric Schmitt

Posted on 01/21/2023 2:49:03 PM PST by Mariner

WASHINGTON — The billions of dollars in new arms for Ukraine announced this month — including British tanks, American fighting vehicles, and howitzers from Denmark and Sweden — are testament to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s failure to split the NATO allies after nearly a year of war. But small yet significant fractures are getting too big to hide.

The differences are over strategy for the coming year and the more immediate question of what Ukraine needs in the next few months, as both sides in the war prepare for major offensives in the spring. And although most of those debates take place behind closed doors, Britain’s impatience with the current pace of aid and Germany’s refusal to provide Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine broke out into public view this week.

When the new British foreign secretary, James Cleverly, visited Washington this week, he gathered reporters for lunch and made the case that it is possible for Ukraine to score a “victory” in the war this year if the allies move fast to exploit Russia’s weaknesses. Officials in Poland, the Baltic States and Finland have largely agreed with the British assessment.

(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: davidesanger; ericschmitt; leteuropedealwithit; notourwar
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The western countries of the original NATO have real and legitimate interests best served by cutting Ukraine loose.

And none of them have a single real interest in Ukraine.

1 posted on 01/21/2023 2:49:03 PM PST by Mariner
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To: Mariner

The headline says it’s holding strong but falling apart.


2 posted on 01/21/2023 2:55:20 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (The worst thing about censorship is ████ █ ██████ ███████ ███ ██████ ██ ████████. FJB.)
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To: Mariner

“The western countries of the original NATO have real and legitimate interests best served by cutting Ukraine loose.”

As you wave that piece of paper, and declare, “What we have, is peace in our time!”

We’ve seen this movie before.


3 posted on 01/21/2023 2:56:09 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule. )
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To: Mariner
UnitedForUkraine
4 posted on 01/21/2023 2:58:42 PM PST by McGruff (Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up - Barack Obama)
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To: All

NATO should have ceased to exist after the fall of the Soviet Union.


5 posted on 01/21/2023 3:04:33 PM PST by escapefromboston (Free Chauvin)
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To: escapefromboston

When the very last Ukrainian is asked was it worth it all, I know the answer. Expect the US to escalate, “the end” is getting near. There are a lot of war cheerleaders going to wake up with one heck of a hangover.


6 posted on 01/21/2023 3:08:24 PM PST by delta7
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To: ought-six

“We’ve seen this movie before.”

Your argument would be valid if Russia had the ability to swallow all of Europe.

They do not now, and never will have that capability.


7 posted on 01/21/2023 3:17:02 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

> The headline says it’s holding strong but falling apart.

If they have to say it then that means it’s not true ;-)


8 posted on 01/21/2023 3:20:53 PM PST by glorgau
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To: Mariner

“We’ve seen this movie before.”
………………………………………………
Your argument would be valid if Russia had the ability to swallow all of Europe.

They do not now, and never will have that capability.
******************************************************************

Nor do they have the DESIRE. Why would they?


9 posted on 01/21/2023 3:28:58 PM PST by House Atreides (I’m now ULTRA-MAGA. -PRO-MAX)
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To: Mariner

Zelensky and the neo-nazi’s OWN the UniParty and Biden/Obama over the Maiden Revolution of 2014. They have the documents. They have their hands in the Federal Treasury consequent to that ongoing blackmail of DC

Its why they had a heart attack when Trump called Zelensky to “blackmail him”

Projection is the signature of criminal politicians


10 posted on 01/21/2023 3:32:58 PM PST by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you don't understand, no explanation is possible)
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To: Mariner
In the very recent past Russia had conquered enough of Europe that they and many others thought they could take the rest, or destroy the world while trying.


11 posted on 01/21/2023 3:34:58 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: Mariner

“Your argument would be valid if Russia had the ability to swallow all of Europe. They do not now, and never will have that capability.”

You can see how the Neocon Supporters here are whipping up what was a legitimate fear of the Soviet Union and trying to paste it on Russia, a country with half of the population of the USSR, and roughly one quarter of the population of NATO.

Other than a few over-ripe Cold Warriors, most here don’t fall for that stunt, thankfully.


12 posted on 01/21/2023 4:07:33 PM PST by BobL
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To: ansel12

Russia does not have the power to swallow Europe today, and you and your corrupt cohort know it. Yet you dangle it to pursue other objectives, and show allegiance to Ukraine.

Because Ukraine is where your allegiance lies.

Allusions to the Domino Theory make you look stupid to those who don’t already know.


13 posted on 01/21/2023 4:08:56 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Says the admitted pro-Kremlin guy, with great hostility.

There is no reason to not contribute to making it more difficult for Russia to invade its neighbors and start European wars.


14 posted on 01/21/2023 4:23:15 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: Mariner

Putin knew this would be a fight with NATO, and he assessed NATO as internally fractious and bureaucratically near-paralyzed.
He wants his legacy to be the dissolution of NATO and the EU.
I think his chances are good.


15 posted on 01/21/2023 4:43:11 PM PST by JustaTech (A mind is a terrible thing)
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To: ansel12

“Says the admitted pro-Kremlin guy”

Liar.

And stupid too.

There are PLENTY of good reasons to not spend a dime on Ukraine.


16 posted on 01/21/2023 5:15:28 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

This is about as strong a statement that a pro-Kremlin guy could make.

“Most members of this forum would take the word of the Kremlin over the word of the US government on any/every subject. Everyday.”


17 posted on 01/21/2023 5:19:09 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: ansel12

“Most members of this forum would take the word of the Kremlin over the word of the US government on any/every subject. Everyday.”

That is still true.

And you’re still stupid.

And a liar.


18 posted on 01/21/2023 5:36:24 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

I never lie, but you are, even as you look at your own words, and even repeat them.

You are as bad at being honest with yourself and others, as you are at predictions.


19 posted on 01/21/2023 5:43:10 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: ansel12

That statement of fact does not make me pro Kremlin.

But you keep lying.

I just looked and see you fancy yourself a sheepdog.

That’s a joke, right?

Nobody has ever looked to you for security or safety.

You’re a pretender.


20 posted on 01/21/2023 5:50:43 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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