Posted on 01/19/2023 4:42:04 AM PST by Callahan
“Came to our aid. LOL. Thanks but we did almost al the heavy lifting.”
Yet the USA invoked Article 5
And the countries came to the USA’s aid when this was invoked
ha ha - that is so funny. You have no points to back your statement so resort to calling names.
Are you pouting as well?
Nope -- and as I've said before, I'm here on the border and I also know Ukrainian programmers who went to Ukraine to defend their homes from the invading Putin army
Ukraine has not "consumed" all of the fighting age men.
Russia has already been defeated in it's plan A and B - A being to make Ukraine a vassal state (failed in March at the battle of Hostomel) and plan B (failed in May and cemented in November with the liberation of Kherson from Putin's army
They are well on their way to returning to Feb 2022 borders, which is why Medvedev is taking of Russia losing.
“Russia has already been defeated in it’s plan A and B”
Link please.
.
I win, last post. Please don’t respond.
Looking back, it is now clear that it was a mistake to say to Ukraine and Georgia that when they met some criteria they would be admitted. That signaled to Putin that he should invade before they were admitted. But, hindsight is always 20-20.
We were willing to live with Crimea and the breakaway republics. Then, Putin went all-in with an outright invasion. The only thing he accomplished, however, is show the world that Russia is, at most, a regional power, not a near peer.
Russia is more like North Korea than a near peer, in that it has an authoritarian government, a huge army on paper and nuclear weapons. What is the lesson for authoritarian governments such as Iran and Venezuela? Obviously, it is to get nuclear weapons. With nuclear proliferation, the world is going to become a very dangerous place. The cost of France’s and Germany’s seeking not to provoke Russia may ultimately be disastrous.
We would do well to follow Teddy Roosevelt: Speak softly and carry a big stick.
“We would do well to follow Teddy Roosevelt: Speak softly and carry a big stick.”
Correct.
Links for you
Russia has already been defeated in it’s plan A and B - A being to make Ukraine a vassal state (failed in March at the battle of Hostomel) — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hostomel —> Result
Ukrainian victory
Russia occupied the area around the airport with reinforcements, but a swift operation to overthrow the Ukrainian government failed
plan B (failed in May and cemented in November with the liberation of Kherson from Putin’s army —> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_of_Kherson
Read above - Gorbachev himself says no promise was made.
Furthermore, the agreement was no NATO troops in East Germany. Nothing about NATO accepting central european members - because no one in 1989 thought the Soviet system would collapse in the next few decades, leave alone years.
I remember what I heard on the national news at that time. The US and NATO are the ones who have provoked Russia in this fight. When the nukes flying I’ll know who was to blame.
Way back in 1999 Pat Buchanan was warning everyone about the expansion of NATO by saying,”By moving NATO onto Russia’s front porch, we have scheduled a twenty-first-century confrontation.”
Was he correct? Yes!
How many Americans lives do think is acceptable to sacrifice for the destruction of Russia? We already have boots on the ground there. 10,000? 50,000? 100,000? What’s your limit?
And the leader of the USSR at that time, who was there at that meeting said categorically that no promise was made for NATO "expansion" to countries east of Germany - furthermore, there is NO mention of any such promise in the agreement of that time or notes
The US and NATO are the ones who have provoked Russia in this fight. -- as someone who lives and has lived in Poland since 2010, I can tell you that that is false - Russia, or rather Putin has had designs on countries that used to part of the USSR right since the early 2000s
Putin invaded Georgia in 2008, he threatened Ukraine in the early 200s and invaded Ukraine in 2014 despite Russia promising (yes, this is recorded) in 1994 that it would respect Ukraine's borders
Russia started this fight because it is Putin's will to do so
Pat Buchanan was wrong -- Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Romania, even Georgia and Ukraine have the right to band together to protect themselves from the neighborhood bully
You obviously want a nuclear WW3. That’s where it’s headed as long as the West keeps poking the Bear. I hope you like the results.
Firstly - how do you jump to such a conclusion?
Secondly - by giving Ukraine the weapons to DEFEND itself from the Russian invasion, we are PREVENTING WW3 - nuclear or otherwise.
How? This is similar to arming and giving Czechoslovakia a free hand in 1938 to defend itself.
“The west keeps poking the bear” — the west is NOT poking the bear. The Bear is just angry that he can’t attack his neighbors because they have banded together for safety.
Russia is a bully who is getting angry that the smaller boys have all banded together to prevent him punching one of them
Mother Russia is shown to be a pathetic loser
Let’s put this in simple terms
1. There was no, zero chance for Ukraine to join NATO - Germany and France would always veto - for “fear of provoking Russia”
2. Ukrainians wanted a corruption free country and more European freedom and less Russian style oligarchy and corruption. They were moving that way
3. Putin opposed this as this (opposition to oligarchy and corruption) would be contagious and would affect Russians, eventually bringing down his rule
4. Putin has consistently said since 2000 that he wants to bring the Russian empire back - and Ukraine and Belarus are key parts of this
5. Belarus (i.e. Bialo (meaning white) Rus and Ukraine (or Red Rus) are, along with the Muscowites, descended from the Rus) - so he sees Belarus and Ukraine as key parts of “Russia”. The citizens of those two countries don’t quite see it that way
6. Russia promised to respect Ukraine’s borders in 1994 - and signed that.
7. He invaded in 2014 and he invaded again in 2022
The west did nothing to “poke the bear” — what the west SHOULD have done is take Ukraine into NATO in 2008. If they did, then Putin would not have invaded.
European freedom = oxymoron.
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